Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
- 1.1.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 2a.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
- 2b.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
- 3a.
- Mental Difficulties From: Tricia
- 3b.
- Re: Mental Difficulties From: W.G. (Butch) Sharpe
- 3c.
- Re: Mental Difficulties From: Carol Costello
- 3d.
- Re: Mental Difficulties From: Holly Shaltz
- 3e.
- Re: Mental Difficulties From: Jude
- 4.1.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 4.2.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Holly Shaltz
- 4.3.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Bonnie Petroski
- 4.4.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Diane Moro
- 4.5.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Diane Moro
- 4.6.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Diane Moro
- 5a.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Patricia
- 5b.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Holly Shaltz
- 5c.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Diane Moro
- 6.1.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 7.1.
- on the positive choice to see a counselor From: Holly Shaltz
- 8a.
- Re: diabetics and weight loss From: Holly Shaltz
- 9.1.
- Re: what makes us MAD From: Holly Shaltz
- 10a.
- Re: Type 2 Diabetes, The Thirty-Third Year From: Holly Shaltz
- 11.1.
- OT the guilt from putting self first From: Jude
- 11.2.
- Re: OT the guilt from putting self first From: Diane Moro
- 12a.
- Re: Another interesting NYT article From: Holly Shaltz
Messages
- 1.1.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:40 am (PST)
Syd writes:
<<Of course a failure of will is involved in
obesity. It would be absurd to argue otherwise,>>
That's the old "it's your fault you got diabetes -
you gained weight and were a couch potato" view
that's been thoroughly debunked by every reputable
source I've seen. It's a very moral judgment - at
least every person I've seen react to that phrase
sees it that way, regardless of your intent.
Quite a loaded phrase, in fact. It's also an
inaccurate assessment of every diabetic or obese
person I've dealt with in person or on lists and
forums and blogs. What we lack are the tools and
knowledge for using those tools, not will power!
Think of all the poor obese kids out there - would
you blame *them* for being fat, say *they* have a
"failure of will"? Of course not! They were
raised in some way to make them compulsive
overeaters, food addicts, comfort eaters, whatever
you want to call them. And many will go on to
become T2 diabetics. Just as many of us were thin
and active until IR started us gaining weight.
"Failure of will" IS, indeed, absurd as a cause
for diabetes or obesity. But genetics and
cultural factors are well-established as causes.
<<Problem is that many folks actually gain
weight once the get their BG under control, so a
simplistic view of this is obviously inadequate.>>
I strongly suspect your idea of "BG under control"
is NOT the same as mine.
My definition of BG under control is what my
personal goals are: BGs (and A1C and overall
fluctuation of BGs) in the non-diabetic range.
And, based on my reading, I agree with Dr
Bernstein: Non-diabetics have an A1C of 4.2 -
4.6, keeping their BGs around 83 with only minimal
excursions above 100.
No one else needs to adopt these standards if they
don't want to. I don't impose my goals on anyone
else. But I believe it takes close to that degree
of BG control to manage weight loss beyond the
immediate that most of us have as a result of
dropping to the ADA diet.
A *combination* of factors: *BG Control PLUS Carb
Control* that results in sustained weight loss,
and maintaining that weight loss. If someone has
BG control close to the non-diabetic range but is
still eating a lot of carbs, and if that person is
still making lots of insulin, then the insulin is
storing the glucose from those carbs as fat.
Insulin IS a fat-storage hormone. That's what it
does when it can't move glucose into cells for
energy due to IR.
Holly in MI
- 2a.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com" velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:42 am (PST)
oh, I am certainly happy with my readings and my goal over the next few years is to get it down to below 100 . If the medicine is not going to affect food and can be discontinued later, I will talk to my doctor and see what can be done. Thanks for the response.
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Holly Shaltz <holly@...> wrote:com
>
> velli writes:
>
> <<After five years, I am regularly on fasting BG
> of 100 to 120 and PP of 150 to 180. I consider
> this normal .>>
>
> And it's about what the ADA recommends. Some
> authorities feel lower numbers are actually closer
> to non-diabetic norms, and that aiming for lower
> levels is healthier. I personally aim for under
> 100 at all times, and to stay within 10 points of
> 83 at all times (no, I don't achieve that all the
> time, but it's what I aim at nonetheless). I
> believe this to represent non-diabetic norms, and
> my best chance to reduce the complications I have
> and avoid worse ones in the future.
>
> <<Medicines would make me eat the standard
> quantity at the right time .>>
>
> Certain medications, yes, but not all. Metformin
> (which might or might not be useful in your
> situation - that would be for you and your doctor
> to decide) doesn't make any such requirement.
>
> << There was also the feeling that with medicines
> you are sort of "hooked" for life on them!>>
>
> Why? I have been able to drop taking micronase
> entirely, and have halved my metformin dose, in a
> year. Medications are only a tool. As long as
> they help more than hinder, they're fine. If they
> become more a problem, then it's time to change them.
>
> <<Does anyone think I must go onto the medicines ?>>
>
> It's up to you to set your own BG goals, and then
> talk with your doctor about how to achieve those
> goals. No one "must" go on any meds - each person
> has the power to say no thanks. But some meds
> might give you better BG results with the food and
> exercise you're doing now; or might allow you more
> flexibility with your food.
>
> Bottom line is, what are your personal diabetes
> management goals, and what means do you want to
> use to achieve those goals? If you're happy where
> you are, why change? :)
>
> Holly in MI
>
- 2b.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com" velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:44 am (PST)
The thought of insulin somehow does not make me comfortable. But yes, I see the doctor in a month, so will discuss.
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "Jude" <peridotjude@com ...> wrote:
>
> --- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "velliyurvenkatesh@com " <velliyurvenkatesh@ > wrote: I was diagnosed diabetic from 2003 and the doctor without even a thought wanted to put me on medicine. It was I who refused and asked for how to deal with this without meds. The doctor recommended exercise and diet control. After five years, I am regularly on fasting BG of 100 to 120 and PP of 150 to 180. I consider this normal . Yes also weight loss from 62 kgs to 56 kgs. Not being on meds gives me the flexibility of eating lesser or more food and at flexible times.And making up with lesser or more exercise. Medicines would make me eat the standard quantity at the right time . There was also the feeling that with medicines you are sort of "hooked" for life on them! Does anyone think I must go onto the medicines ? Or can I manage as I have up to now? Will not taking medicines have side effects?>
>
> Welcome to the group, and thanks for introducing yourself.
>
> If you and your doctor are satisfied with your current level of diabetic control, then that's all that really matters-- I'm not sure anyone else gets to have a say! I will tell you, though, that fasting numbers of 100-120 and PP numbers of 150-180 are not "normal". Normal fasting is considered to be 65-99 and therefore PP normal would be about 20-30 points up from any pre-meal test.
>
> Being on insulin would give you the flexibility you're after, and the only side effect is low blood glucose. Whether or not your doctor would approve insulin therapy for you or even if it's even medically indicated for you, I have no idea.
>
> And lastly, no, just because you're put on diabetic medication(s), it certainly doesn't mean you'd always have to be on them. Weight loss, increased exercise, and strict low-carb eating could always mean that you can discontinue those drugs, or at least modify the dosage size, if and when it ever becomes indicated. Most type 2s go through several self-care regimen changes as the years go by, in an effort to stay in good control.
>
> Judy D.
>
- 3a.
-
Mental Difficulties
Posted by: "Tricia" psimmons1219@gmail.com psimmons1219
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:42 am (PST)
I have been struggling with a very embarrassing issue.
I seem to be struggling with words. I have never stuttered or had problems putting sentences together before I was diabetic.
I am so frustrated. There are several different problems I am having but I think they are all really the same thing.
I can not find the word sometimes. I can list everything about the word but can not come up with the word I need. For example. The other day I was trying to say the word quilt. I could come up with sewing, fabric, my back room, you know that thing I spend lots of time doing....
I will think I say one word but that is not the word that came out of my mouth. This one could really get me in trouble. I have been having trouble with my husbands name. My Ex died last week and he was on my mind while he was so sick the last few weeks. This has never ever happened to me before. I seem to be getting worse.
I either stutter or pause for 45 seconds to a minute coming up with the thought I am trying to get across.
I had a CT of the brain and the doctor said I did NOT have a stroke. I was wondering if this is from the diabetes.
My glucose is not high. I have had lows but my ranges are fine right now. I have been between 80 and 120 the last 6 days and I have had lots of trouble.
I do have other medical problems which seems to be really common in diabetes. Is there any information on diabetes and other medical problems and there associations.
Thanks for your help. I am really scared. I turned 41 a few days ago and I am worried about what will happen as I get older.
Tricia
- 3b.
-
Re: Mental Difficulties
Posted by: "W.G. (Butch) Sharpe" wsharpe@embarqmail.com gosdayi
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:55 am (PST)
Hello Tricia,
If I may ask, are you on "beta blockers" for heart problems. I was put on them last winter trying to reduce a rapid heartbeat. I don't think diabetes was a factor, For 3 months, I was confused, couldn't read or write and could hardly talk. The words just weren't there. I would pause in the middle of a sentence for a period of time and damn near forget what I was trying to say. I also had terrible itching. So bad that I would lay in bed all night, awake, trying not to scratch my legs. Every few nights, I would manage to sleep from sheer exhaustion and have weird and scary dreams, mostly about Vietnam, although some were placed in a desert, I would wake up the next morning and find that I had scratched my self bloody. That upset my wife because I was making the sheets bloody. I gave my car away so I wouldn't be tempted to drive the car I really loved to drive. Obviously a poor decision, as I had to get it back from my son. I was also too weak to walk without help or give myself a bath etc. When I realized that it must be the beta blocker I took everyday, I quit taking them. Within 2 days my mind cleared enough that I could read again (my favorite hobby). I had tried all kinds of creams, lotions and anti-histamine pills to get relief from the itching. The itching started to disappear a couple of days after I stopped the beta blockers. My doctor has marked my records that I am allergic to that particular medicine.My sister also had problems with beta blockers. She was very weak, didn't have the strength to walk 10 feet and couldn't breath very well. Any movement would leave her gasping for breath. Her doctor finally figured out that the beta blockers were causing her problems. The 2nd day after coming off the blockers, she was able to go back to work.
So, if your on beta blockers, beat a hasty path to your doctor about coming off them for a few days to see if that is causing the problems you are suddenly having. I seemed to recover rather quickly. I hope your problem is as easily solved as mine were.
Regards & good luck,
Butch
----- Original Message -----
From: Tricia
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:59 AM
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] Mental Difficulties
I have been struggling with a very embarrassing issue.
I seem to be struggling with words. I have never stuttered or had problems putting sentences together before I was diabetic.
I am so frustrated. There are several different problems I am having but I think they are all really the same thing.
I can not find the word sometimes. I can list everything about the word but can not come up with the word I need. For example. The other day I was trying to say the word quilt. I could come up with sewing, fabric, my back room, you know that thing I spend lots of time doing....
I will think I say one word but that is not the word that came out of my mouth. This one could really get me in trouble. I have been having trouble with my husbands name. My Ex died last week and he was on my mind while he was so sick the last few weeks. This has never ever happened to me before. I seem to be getting worse.
- 3c.
-
Re: Mental Difficulties
Posted by: "Carol Costello" carolrcostello@yahoo.com carolrcostello
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:13 am (PST)
WHAT ARE THE NAMES OF THESE DRUGS?
_____________________ _________ __
From: W.G. (Butch) Sharpe <wsharpe@embarqmail.com >
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 10:51:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] Mental Difficulties
Hello Tricia,
If I may ask, are you on "beta
blockers" for heart problems. I was put on them last winter trying to
reduce a rapid heartbeat. I don't think diabetes was a factor, For 3
months, I was confused, couldn't read or write and could hardly talk. The
words just weren't there. I would pause in the middle of a sentence for a period
of time and damn near forget what I was trying to say. I also had terrible
itching. So bad that I would lay in bed all night, awake, trying not to
scratch my legs. Every few nights, I would manage to sleep from sheer exhaustion
and have weird and scary dreams, mostly about Vietnam, although some were placed
in a desert, I would wake up the next morning and find that I had
scratched my self bloody. That upset my wife because I was making the sheets
bloody. I gave my car away so I wouldn't be tempted to drive the car I really
loved to drive. Obviously a poor decision, as I had to get it back from my son.
I was also too weak to walk without help or give myself a bath etc. When I
realized that it must be the beta blocker I took everyday, I quit taking them.
Within 2 days my mind cleared enough that I could read again (my favorite
hobby). I had tried all kinds of creams, lotions and anti-histamine pills to get
relief from the itching. The itching started to disappear a couple of days after
I stopped the beta blockers. My doctor has marked my records that I am
allergic to that particular medicine.My sister also had problems with beta
blockers. She was very weak, didn't have the strength to walk 10 feet and
couldn't breath very well. Any movement would leave her gasping for
breath. Her doctor finally figured out that the beta blockers were causing her
problems. The 2nd day after coming off the blockers, she was able to go back to
work.
So, if your on beta blockers, beat a hasty path to
your doctor about coming off them for a few days to see if that is causing the
problems you are suddenly having. I seemed to recover rather quickly.
I hope your problem is as easily solved as mine were.
Regards & good luck,
Butch
----- Original Message -----
>From: Tricia
>To: Type-2-Diabetes@ yahoogroups. com
>Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:59
> AM
>Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] Mental
> Difficulties
>
>
>I have been struggling with a very embarrassing issue.
>
>I seem to be
> struggling with words. I have never stuttered or had problems putting
> sentences together before I was diabetic.
>
>I am so frustrated. There are
> several different problems I am having but I think they are all really the
> same thing.
>
>I can not find the word sometimes. I can list everything
> about the word but can not come up with the word I need. For example. The
> other day I was trying to say the word quilt. I could come up with sewing,
> fabric, my back room, you know that thing I spend lots of time
> doing....
>
>I will think I say one word but that is not the word that
> came out of my mouth. This one could really get me in trouble. I have been
> having trouble with my husbands name. My Ex died last week and he was on my
> mind while he was so sick the last few weeks. This has never ever happened to
> me before. I seem to be getting
>worse.
>
- 3d.
-
Re: Mental Difficulties
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:29 am (PST)
Tricia, I've had that for years, and I do
attribute it to diabetes. Long-term uncontrolled
BGs damage all aspects of the body. The brain is
one of many victims.
My friend who refuses to accept she's diabetic, at
least until doctor makes it official, often asks
me if my mental workings have improved. I think
she's afraid of that. I have to report it hasn't
really improved at all <sigh>
I do stutter a little less - understood that
yesterday when I stuttered several times and
suddenly realized I hadn't been stuttering as much
recently - but I still grope for words, both when
typing and speaking. An earlier email I needed
the word "credibility" and could only come up with
"believability" until I was nearly ready to send
the email. And when typing, I frequently misspell
words that should be easy for me. I keep a
thesaurus and a dictionary near the computer these
days, for those problems.
And overall, I have a much harder time
communicating with the spoken word - getting out
concepts used to be easy for me, but it's like I
can't get from the concept to the spoken word very
well any more.
I *hope* I will see improved brain function as I
continue to keep my BGs down, but there's really
no telling.
And no, I've never been on beta blockers :)
Holly in MI
- 3e.
-
Re: Mental Difficulties
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:46 am (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "Tricia" <psimmons1219@com ...> wrote:I seem to be struggling with words. I have never stuttered or had problems putting sentences together before I was diabetic. I am so frustrated. There are several different problems I am having but I think they are all really the same thing. I can not find the word sometimes <snip> I either stutter or pause for 45 seconds to a minute coming up with the thought I am trying to get across.<snip> Thanks for your help. I am really scared. I turned 41 a few days ago and I am worried about what will happen as I get older>>
My late sister called this inability to remember what something is called "name that noun." I know both my husband (65) and I (60) have had this problem for about 5 years or so now. We laugh about it, but it is very frustrating to find that "thing" is the only noun you can come up with to name an object. And people's names are impossible-- I hardly even try to remember or recall them anymore.
IMO, anxiety can make it worse. The more you worry about it, the more you're apt to stutter around.
Perhaps thinking out what you're going to say before you open your mouth will help. If you're like me, you probably like to lead with your mouth-- your mouth opens, words come out, and then the brain engages. That works when you're young and with-it, but as we age and our mouths and words start to betray us, maybe it's time to slow down.
Judy D.
- 4.1.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:43 am (PST)
OK, I will give you some counseling as a freebie. Never feel guilty about doing what you need to do to stay healthy and happy. See, that was easy. And I can do it as well as any mental heath professional. (I can send a bill if it would make you think the advice is better).
Seriously Diane, we are the product of how we were raised and the cultural biases of the time and place. You are a smart lady (except maybe about Obamacare), and probably much smarter than the mental health professional you will be wasting money on. Do you imagine they will unlock that dark secret that makes you the way you are? Not a chance.
You already know why you are the way you are, You have engaged in admirable self-analysis in here during the brief time I have known you, What this all boils down to is do what you know you need to do. Incidentally, I am a horribly helpless male, and find myself arguing against self interest here. Your hubby may move to have me ejected from the helpless male society. Actually my sig other is intensely strong willed, and is well skilled at saying "do it yourself, jackass."
Syd
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Moro
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] Re: weight loss, but for how long?
JoAnne, you are absolutely right. I come from a long line of women who lived to serve man, I was talking to my mom yesterday to wish her a Merry Christmas (I live in NY, my parents live in Italy) and when I broached the subject of taking care of me, she said you gotta watch out for you man, you know how they are, they don't take care of themselves and if he goes down he will drag you down with him. When I tried to tell her that I do as much as I can but I don't want to neglect myself she just said you have to make room for both, it's the wife's burden.
So there you have it, this is what I internalized. To this day at 84 my father acts like a helpless baby.
I need to get the point where I can say with a clear conscience, OK, I'm going to leave you on your own now, gotta do something for me. So far, this approach has been guilt laden for me. So if I do it, the guilt I feel ruins it for me. That can't be good.
~diane
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, jm04161955 <jm04161955@yahoo.com > wrote:
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Diane Moro <deemoro@...com > wrote:
Forgive me for stepping in and possibly crossing a lien I shouldn't, but is there some reason why your husband can't "get his own dinner"? Even if he's not a fantastic cook and can only make simple foods, it takes no more than a few minutes to thorw some boneless chicken breasts into a skillet with some oil, salt and pepper, and you can chop and steam a head of broccoli nearly as quickly. Or keep some grilled chicken or ham in the fridge, and buy some romaine lettuce or a variety of drak greens and tomatoes, and in a few minutes, you'e got a salad with adequate protein that can be a meal on its own. Or is it the mindset that the woman must make the meals?
- 4.2.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:41 am (PST)
Judy writes (and I'm not taking it personally :)
<<the acid test is if you can keep on doing what
you've found to work, day after week after month
after year. Will you still be riding this train
next year? In 2020? For the rest of your life? >>
Goodness, Judy, any number of things could derail
*anyone*, myself included! I could get hit by a
car and be massively injured, I could come down
with untreatable cancer that will kill me in a few
months - to heck with BG control then, I'm eatin'
some POPCORN! <g> I could lose a loved one and
turn to food for comfort. I could....
Sheesh, the possibilities are *endless*! And also
pointless to worry about. On this day, I am doing
the best I can to stay on top of my BGs.
Yesterday is over. Tomorrow may never occur.
And if I do fall off the wagon, well, at least I
know what it takes to get back on again! I also
know the positive payback of doing what I know I
need to do. Both make it a LOT easier to get back
on! Oh, yeah, and not doing guilt trips about
what I eat or don't eat, exercise or don't
exercise, that helps a lot too.
<< But where the rubber meets the road is-- will
those pounds stay off or not, long term? >>
So my message isn't worth the listening until I've
been doing it X number of years? <g> I know you
don't mean it quite that way - but it does seem
implied by your words. I will never be a
diagnosed diabetic as long as you have been. That
may undermine my credibility with you, or others
who were diagnosed before me. But I hold by the
principles of my message. I'm not the only one
managing weight loss and BG control this way. I
didn't learn it in a vacuum. I learned it from
blogs, forums, books, email lists, as well as
personal experience. There are 1000s of people
out there managing their diabetes this way,
successfully, year after year after year.
Does it work for *every* diabetic? Maybe not.
But if a given person has tried all else, what's
to lose in trying this approach? Sure, I miss
popcorn. And lots of other high-carb foods. But
what I've gained (or lost, in the case of weight
:) is amazing, far beyond anything I dared dream
when I started. Quite the contrary - I had a
nightmare of the future, of white-knuckled
cravings given into with regularity, at BEST.
<<I would do WHATEVER it took to keep if off, but
guess what? Yep. I weigh 75 lbs more now than I
did when I started that program.>>
But have you been able to figure out why you
gained the weight back? And don't tell me it was
a "failure of will" :) I KNOW you better than
that! And *anyone* who can lose 100 pounds in a
year has a *ferocious* will!
I'm sorry, very sorry, you don't find me credible.
I hope others will listen to what I say, take
some small piece of it, try that, and if it works,
try another small piece until they build their own
picture of diabetes management. I will continue
to offer my approach to those who are interested -
and remember, it's not just me; I didn't originate
it. I'm following where others led.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Judy}}}} }}}}}}}}} }
It's been a long, hard road for you. Don't think
I'd EVER forget that!
Holly in MI
- 4.3.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Bonnie Petroski" dragonlady@moosebrookroad.net moosebrookroad
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:51 am (PST)
Diane,
I think you are the product of your upbringing. I am the same way. If
someone in the family is in need, it is my fault. You are a nurturer. If
anyone in my household is in distress, it is my job to "fix" it.
I worked evenings. had to be at work by 3 pm, and when I started, I made
dinner for my husband. Then, I had an epiphany! He is a grown man, and he
won't starve! I shopped for easy things for him to make, and left it at
that.
Sometimes he cooked, sometimes he didn't, just ate snacky stuff. And, guess
what? He survived!
Go to the frozen dinner section at the grocery store, and put away the
guilt, girl!
There! And that is free! ;>}
Bonnie in cold Maine
- 4.4.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:50 am (PST)
"do it yourself, jackass"...please thank the MRS for me! What words of
wisdom!
Well, easier said than done.
But can I tell Ron that you said so? I'd love it!
Actually, when I've shared with him how I feel (sometimes loudly lol) he
says "do you think I'm stupid, of course I can get my own meal!" also said
loudly.
So it's been an ongoing issue for me, the battle and inner turmoil and
conflict rage on....wow how dramatic does that sound?!
But I do hear you. Thanks for the tip.
If I understand what you are saying to me, I'm using self analysis as
another way to procrastinate? HMmm I'll take that under consideration....
(the sarcasm in my head right now is making me smile B I G!)
~diane
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 6:26 AM, AnaLog Services, Inc.
<analog@logwell.com >wrote:
>
>
>
> OK, I will give you some counseling as a freebie. Never feel guilty about
> doing what you need to do to stay healthy and happy. See, that was easy.
> And I can do it as well as any mental heath professional. (I can send a
> bill if it would make you think the advice is better).
>
>
>
- 4.5.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:55 am (PST)
Thanks Bonnie, I know there are a lot of us "recovering" women out there!
Left to his own devices, Ron will eat crap and with his medical conditions
(not diabetes) he should be eating better. But today I sent him to the
supermarket (unheard of in the past!) with a list. He did not balk.
And this was after he did his own laundry!
Hey, I could be on to something here.
Stay warm, Bonnie!
~diane
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Bonnie Petroski <
dragonlady@moosebrookroad.net > wrote:
> Diane,
>
> I think you are the product of your upbringing. I am the same way. If
> someone in the family is in need, it is my fault. You are a nurturer. If
> anyone in my household is in distress, it is my job to "fix" it.
>
>
- 4.6.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:02 am (PST)
Holly, I find you very credible, and I believe your way of living is exactly
right for you, as you can see the results.
I applaud that and I want you to know that I DO find strength in what you
say.
It's just that everyone has to find their own way, if you know what I mean.
And each of us has to find exactly the right thing that will work for us on
a daily basis.
I remember when I was between husbands, some 20 yrs ago, I fell in love with
dark chocolate. I remember thinking to myself, well, if I can't have a man,
at least I can have this wonderful, sensuous dark chocolate. True story.
Sometimes we just have to have happy moments when and where we can.
And sharing salty buttery popcorn with my granddaughter while watching a
funny moviie is something that makes me happy too. Not giving it up.
Must find a way to incorporate these wonderful moments into my healthy
eating plan.
And I will.
But I'm glad that you returned to this list, as I have always gotten
something good from your thoughts.
~diane
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, very sorry, you don't find me credible.
> I hope others will listen to what I say, take
> some small piece of it, try that, and if it works,
> try another small piece until they build their own
> picture of diabetes management. I will continue
> to offer my approach to those who are interested -
> and remember, it's not just me; I didn't originate
> it. I'm following where others led.
>
>
- 5a.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Patricia" psimmons1219@gmail.com psimmons1219
Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:47 am (PST)
I have gotten lots of great information from the Type 2 diabetes sourcebook for women by M. Sara Rosenthal (My favorite book about diabetes that I currently own)
and I also have The new glucose revolution for diabetes by Dr Jennie Brand-Miller, Kaye Foster-Powell and a couple of other doctors.
There are lots of good books out there on Diabetes and most of the information is on the web just in lots of different places. I did find a book on medications but can not put my hands on it right now. It talks about diabetes drugs and how they work. Will try and locate it for you. You can look these 2 books up on Amazon and see if they interest you.
Tricia
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "Dolores" <djdesi98@..com .> wrote:
>
> I have many medical problems and just added diabetes to the list. I want to educate myself ahead of taking classes and etc. so I can ask better questions and comprehend more of what is being taught. Please recommend some books for me to read. Been looking at Amazon, but don't know what is best.
>
> dolores
>
- 5b.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:44 am (PST)
Judy writes:
<<I need one entitled, "Type 2 Diabetes, The
Thirty-Third Year".>>
Write it! Yeah, I know, it's the pits, wanting
support and having to create it for yourself.
I've been there, done that many times in various
aspects of my life - having to reinvent the wheel
over and over ad nauseum, in diabetes, parenting,
being a military wife, and on and on....
And what people consistently kept telling me when
I'd look for information and support and not find
what I needed was to write it myself. That's part
of why I came back to this list. Writing what I
do reinforces it for myself. When I see someone
connect with my message, that provides support to
me. And reading of others' struggles keeps fresh
in my mind what it was like for me to get to where
I am today. It's altogether too easy to take
today for granted; I NEED these reminders!
So, write it Judy! I'll be happy to work with
you, any way I can - just as another set of eyes
if you wish (no need for a byline :) Because I,
too, love to write <VBG>
Holly in MI
- 5c.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:09 am (PST)
between the writing skills of you two ladies, it would be a great book! Go
for it! I'd buy it!
~diane
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
> Judy writes:
>
> <<I need one entitled, "Type 2 Diabetes, The
> Thirty-Third Year".>>
>
> Write it! Yeah, I know, it's the pits, wanting
> support and having to create it for yourself.
> I've been there, done that many times in various
> aspects of my life - having to reinvent the wheel
> over and over ad nauseum, in diabetes, parenting,
> being a military wife, and on and on....
>
>
- 6.1.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:10 am (PST)
Syd writes:
<<No popcorn in 16 months? Obviously Diane does
not want to engage in such an extreme lifestyle,
and neither do most folks. >>
ROFLOL!!!! Thanks for the best laugh I've had in
a while <g>
Let's see, how about a visualization exercise?
Imagine a set of old-fashioned scales with two
baskets dangling from the balance.
Let's put popcorn on one side - the most
delectable gourmet popcorns around, and lots of
it! We'll be really generous and make it the
microwave kind, without being popped yet, so that
it'll be especially tempting and very very dense.
What do we put against that popcorn?
Hmmm, increased quality of life - more energy,
MUCH less pain, weight loss, maintaining the
weight loss, much less expense buying clothes
(leaving more for books! :), not being afraid of
not living to see another birthday, lower BP,
lower cholesterol, shooting pains in the feet
disappearing, much more rapid healing, a sense of
well-being, the ability to do T'ai Chi (which I
had wanted to for over a decade but couldn't when
obese), the ability to go on long rambles with DD,
the knowledge I'll grow old with DH, not being the
fattest person in every room, being able to walk
into any store to buy clothes, fitting in the car
seat belt comfortably.....
Which would *you* pick if you felt you had the
power to make that choice?
It's extremely judgmental to call *my* choice
"extreme". Silly, besides. What, no popcorn
makes life unlivable? <g>
Nor did I ever say that *my* choice to <sobbing>
live without popcorn needs to be anyone else's
choice. What I wrote was that *I* can't eat a
moderate amount of popcorn, whether in terms of
what it does to my BGs - if I ate one small bag it
would probably shoot my BG well over 100, and I
would feel that rise excrutiatingly - or in the
fact it would make me white-knuckle crave popcorn
for a long time after, and I would probably end up
eating it again - I don't do white-knuckle
cravings very well. None of this is a moral
judgment of myself, or anyone else with the same
problem with popcorn or <fill in the blank carby
food>. It's a physical fact: if I eat carb-dense
foods, I crave them, and usually eat them again
because cravings are unpleasant and eating is
pleasant.
<<And finally, what is "falling off the wagon" if
not a failure of will?>>
Your interpretation, not mine. I take moral
judgment off my food choices. I feel no guilt
over what I eat - or don't eat, for that matter.
I just watch my meter and pay attention to how I
feel. The lack of guilt is freeing, refreshing,
and not having it means I don't any longer kick
myself for eating something I "shouldn't", thereby
leading to more eating to comfort myself, which
leads to more guilt.... Instead, I just write
down what I eat and what the BG results were, and
make a note to self to not eat like that again!
<<The problem I see with your approach is that it
borders on obsessive and is certainly not for most
folks. >>
There's another moral judgment - obsessive is
constantly used to indicate someone is unbalanced.
Nonsense! Would you call someone obsessive for
making sure she/he took meds on time? Then why
should someone eating to BG goals be called obsessive?
And who are you to say it's not "for most folks"
to not eat popcorn, for crying out loud, or any
other favored food? Your attitude is just like
that of the ADA's. We don't KNOW what people are
willing to do until we give them the TOOLS and
KNOWLEDGE and SUPPORT so they can decide for
themselves!!!!
<<Further, I am not so sure you have your science
right on a few things.>>
Like what? Everything I wrote I got out of books
- and not fad books, not "cure your diabetes and
be thin forever" books, but Gretchen Becker's and
Dr Bernstein's books. All I did was put the
pieces together on one page, which neither of
those books quite does for me, though others may
be more perceptive in their reading. And I found
my personal experience tallied with what they
wrote, and passes the common sense test.
I don't claim to be a scientist. What I claim is
personal experience, a heck of a lot of research,
and finally the last puzzle piece falling into
place. I shared it here in hopes others would
find it a BFO as well, and so maybe it would help
them in their own diabetes management choices.
I also don't impose my goals and methods for
reaching them on anyone else. But I offer my
experience as proof that it's no big deal to give
up popcorn - if a person decides the gain is worth
the cost. Most people need information to make an
informed choice about things like that. I just
want to make sure they have that information
available to them.
No popcorn, my favorite-by-far snack, for 16
months - and I'm still alive! Wow!!! <VBG>
Holly in MI
extremely pleased with the results of this
"extreme" lifestyle
- 7.1.
-
on the positive choice to see a counselor
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:25 am (PST)
Diane writes:
<< I feel so "stuck". Something
inside me is obviously hindering my progress, in
more ways than one.
Hopefully a wise therapist will help me piece it
together. At the very
least, it will help validate me, gives me a place
to vent and throw things
on the table that may not be seeing the light of
day otherwise. This is
always a good thing. >>
Diane, I hope you give yourself a BIG pat on the
back for such a healthy view of yourself, and the
healthy choice to see a counselor!
If you get a good one, it is indeed very
validating. I only got to go to one weekly for 4
months before moving again, but I learned so much
it was amazing! He validated my intelligence, my
insight, my willingness to learn and change and
grow; he explained some of the ways in which my
experiences with my mother were damaging - things
I had never figured out for myself, like she was
always changing the rules so I could never be
successful in pleasing her.
What a freeing experience it was, talking to him!
Did it cure all my issues? No, but it made me
see them from a different perspective. It made me
kinder to myself and more understanding of others.
It made me forgive myself for my own "failures
of will" <g> and forgive my mother and father as
well. It made me realize we all do the best we
can with the tools and resources we have at any
given time.
I highly recommend counseling. No, it doesn't
work for everyone - some people really don't want
to change, they just like the attention, and will
switch counselors if one seems to expect too much.
And some counselors just don't click with some
people, in which case a new counselor is a good
idea. But for those of us who are motivated to be
happier, more self-motivated, more in touch with
that solid core of well-being we each carry at our
centers, a good counselor is worth her/his weight
in cold-pressed latinum :)
You go girl! Make positive choices for yourself!
We recognize and celebrate your courage in those
choices!
Holly in MI
- 8a.
-
Re: diabetics and weight loss
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:24 am (PST)
ceyanne writes:
<<I have bee dx for 3 years now I also weigh more
now than I have in 47 years . I take metformin
500mg once a day and 5mg glipizude 5 2 times a day
I am still gaining weigh and can not lose a pound
of it any suggestions>>
Have you talked to your doctor? What does she/he
say? Do you exercise? That can help with weight
loss, overall mood, and BG control. And, of
course, do you weigh, measure, and write down all
you eat? You might be eating more carbs than will
allow you to lose weight. Are you happy with your
BG control? The closer you are to non-diabetic
levels, the more easily you are likely to lose weight.
For info on glipizide, see
<http://www.rxlist.com/glucotrol- > It's adrug.htm
sulfonylurea drug, which means it makes your
pancreas excrete more insulin than it would
otherwise. Many authorities argue against that as
a means of BG control, because it can burn out the
beta cells that manufacture insulin, and cause
hypos (lows). From the perspective of losing
weight, making more insulin also means you have
more chance of storing excess glucose in your
system as fat. You might want to learn more about
the effect of this drug - talk to your doctor,
diabetes nurse educator, and research it in books
and on the internet - and decide whether you want
to stay on this medication or try a different
approach to controlling your BGs.
In the meantime, feel free to share what you're
doing and ask questions about others' methods of
managing their own diabetes - you might hear some
ideas that will help in your situation :)
Holly in MI
- 9.1.
-
Re: what makes us MAD
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:56 am (PST)
Judy writes:
<<Hey, I get MAD because most medical caregivers
think type 2 diabetics don't want to, won't want
to, are incapable of, can't be taught to, and are
not mature and adult enough to deal with being put
on insulin when they need it.>>
Makes me MAD too!
Here's the way I see it: Someone, we'll say
female, almost 50, 80 pounds overweight, name of
Holly <g>, is dx'd as diabetic.
She expected the diagnosis, but hey, it's a
shocking thing anyway. Practically the first
thing out of her mouth is "what do I eat now?" and
is not given any practical answer. The PA says we
might have a flyer around here somewhere, and
sends the LPN to dig around. The next thing is "I
hope I don't have to take insulin - if I do, can I
use a pump like a friend of mine?" and the answer
is only T1s use pumps (not true, as it happens).
And then that newly-dx'd T2 is left hanging, with
no place to go, no solid information of any kind,
just a bunch of prescriptions, a meter (which she
was improperly trained on), and a vague notion of
needing to change her WOE but no clue as to how
except avoiding sugary stuff. Two days before a
birthday on which she had *planned* to have a
pecan pie :)
You better betcha I'm MAD about the failures of
our system! Especially that, then, the diabetic
is BLAMED for any failures of BG control or lack
of weight loss! And that drug therapy is the
first response by a medical practitioner - even
one under the supervision of a DO! And that when
training is dug up and attended, it glosses over
the reality of high BGs and provides no "cons" to
all the "pros" presented of typical "modern"
diabetes management.
Our system sucks. Again, though, we're SO lucky
to have the internet. Imagine being in that
hypothetical person's shoes and not having the
internet to learn from? Or not having any
insurance at all, even for paying for inadequate
care - it's better than no care, at least most of
the time! At least I have most of the cost of my
test strips paid for. It's the only thing that
has been worth the time, trouble, and expense of
my visits to my PA.
Holly in MI
- 10a.
-
Re: Type 2 Diabetes, The Thirty-Third Year
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:57 am (PST)
Judy writes:
<< who in heaven's name would read it? >>
Heck, everyone! Well, everyone who's been a T2
for any length of time. We *all* have challenges
remaining motivated over time. And, with your
sense of humor, your unparalleled ability to write
clearly, as well as your personal experience,
you'd be ideal to write such a book.
Go for it, Judy!
Holly in MI
- 11.1.
-
OT the guilt from putting self first
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:36 am (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Diane Moro <deemoro@...com > wrote:<snip> she just said you have to make room for both, it's the wife's burden.So there you have it, this is what I internalized. To this day at 84 my father acts like a helpless baby <snip> if I do it, the guilt I feel ruins it for me. That can't be good>>
No, it's actually not good for either you or your husband. What your mom taught you, by word and example, is actually very old world, very old fashioned. Women back in the day had no identity of their own except what they found through their homes, husbands and kids. Even their leisure pursuits were vacuous-- shopping, bridge with the girls, charity luncheons, telephone gossip, watching daytime soaps, while the husband worked outside the home to keep the bills paid.
IMO, this isn't good for either spouse. What man wants (you know, down deep, in his heart of hearts) to be "babied" by some woman he's also supposed to have sex with? She's not his mommy, for cryin' out loud, but she acts like a mommy, and this woman is also supposed to be his equal in the marriage, his sexual partner? How bizarre.
Judy D.
- 11.2.
-
Re: OT the guilt from putting self first
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:16 am (PST)
I agree, I always thought it was bizarre, and I didn't need yet another
thing that my mom could find fault with. (me not taking care of Ron)
But we will disagree on this. Now you know why I live in NY and she lives in
Italy.
btw, my mom was a working woman, she worked in my dad's bar/restaurant for
years and if you ask me, SHE kept the place running. She is a very strong
lady, always was, and everything in my childhood home was under her direct
control, one way or the other. My dad was more than happy, I guess, to take
a backseat to this controlling, and I guess that's his problem. He never had
money in his wallet, never paid a bill, just worked and turned it all over
to her. Now that I think about it, that was pretty emasculating. The only
thing she hasn't been able to do is get him to quit smoking and drinking.
I guess that's his payback. Lots of pathology there!
~diane
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Jude <peridotjude@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> IMO, this isn't good for either spouse. What man wants (you know, down
> deep, in his heart of hearts) to be "babied" by some woman he's also
> supposed to have sex with? She's not his mommy, for cryin' out loud, but she
> acts like a mommy, and this woman is also supposed to be his equal in the
> marriage, his sexual partner? How bizarre.
>
> Judy D.
>
>
>
>
- 12a.
-
Re: Another interesting NYT article
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:00 am (PST)
THANK YOU for those links, Debbie! Wow, way cool
to see in official print the things I've slowly
figured out :) I'd heard about Taubes but never
read anything by him before.
I'll be sending those links to my DNE and
dietician, members of my family, and maybe some
friends who swear by low-fat diets as healthy.
Giving them all something to think about :)
Holly in MI
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*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
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