Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: May you and yours be blessed this season... From: Raji Thomas
- 1b.
- Re: May you and yours be blessed this season... From: Faye Ridpath
- 2a.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
- 2b.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: Diane Moro
- 2c.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 2d.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: Holly Shaltz
- 2e.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: Holly Shaltz
- 2f.
- Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group From: Jude
- 3a.
- Re: New Intro Tina in MI From: Faye Ridpath
- 3b.
- Re: New Intro Tina in MI From: Jude
- 4a.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Diane Moro
- 4b.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Diane Moro
- 4c.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 4d.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 5a.
- Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Dolores
- 5b.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Holly Shaltz
- 5c.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Jude
- 5d.
- Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books From: Jude
- 6a.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 6b.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 6c.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: teresa young
- 6d.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: ott chip
- 6e.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: Holly Shaltz
- 6f.
- Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :) From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 6g.
- weight loss, but for how long? From: Jude
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: May you and yours be blessed this season...
Posted by: "Raji Thomas" thomastz@hotmail.com thomastz2001
Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:24 am (PST)
Hi
I use to read all mails from here i am diabetics since 16 years and i am 47 years old .living with 1000 mg metformin
and 30 mg daonil .
Marry X Mas and Happy New years for all .
Reji Thomas
Lubumbashi
D R Congo
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
From: jackievanderhorst@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:25:49 +0000
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] May you and yours be blessed this season...
Hi
I have been a member for a few months now, I can be accused of lurking I guess, nothing intentional meant by that, I just don't usually talk a lot and usually only when it seems to me to be relevent.
But right now I would like to wish all of you a very Merry and Peaceful Christmas full of joyous new memories and a Bright, Sparkling New Year.
Jackie
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Keep your friends updated—even when you're not signed in.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast /windows/ windowslive/ see-it-in- action/social- network-basics. aspx?ocid= PID23461: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- xm:SI_SB_ 5:092010 - 1b.
-
Re: May you and yours be blessed this season...
Posted by: "Faye Ridpath" ispgypsy@gmail.com mommy2marcella
Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:24 am (PST)
Jackie,
That's ok I have been a member for quite some time myself but don't post
often cuz most of what I can think of to say would only be a one line
response.
Thank you for the Christmas wishes, and same to you!
~~~Faye~~~
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Jackie <jackievanderhorst@yahoo.com >wrote:
>
>
> *Hi*
>
> *I have been a member for a few months now, I can be accused of lurking I
> guess, nothing intentional meant by that, I just don't usually talk a lot
> and usually only when it seems to me to be relevent.*
>
> *But right now I would like to wish all of you a very Merry and Peaceful
> Christmas full of joyous new memories and a Bright, Sparkling New Year.*
>
> *Jackie*
>
>
>
- 2a.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com" velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com velliyurvenkatesh@ymail.com
Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:26 am (PST)
I was diagnosed diabetic from 2003 and the doctor without even a thought wanted to put me on medicine. It was I who refused and asked for how to deal with this without meds. The doctor recommended exercise and diet control. After five years, I am regularly on fasting BG of 100 to 120 and PP of 150 to 180. I consider this normal . Yes also weight loss from 62 kgs to 56 kgs. Not being on meds gives me the flexibility of eating lesser or more food and at flexible times.And making up with lesser or more exercise. Medicines would make me eat the standard quantity at the right time . There was also the feeling that with medicines you are sort of "hooked" for life on them!
Does anyone think I must go onto the medicines ? Or can I manage as I have up to now? Will not taking medicines have side effects?
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "AnaLog Services, Inc." <analog@...> wrote:com
>
> Many high BP patients simply cannot lower it with wishful thinking. It is not uncommon that multiple drugs are required. Weight loss would often help, but any clinician will tell you dieting usually does not work in the long run. Personally, I think the role of diuretics is not given enough attention in older patients.
>
> In any event, your nature's cure approach sounds good, but is not very practical in many cases.
>
- 2b.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:49 am (PST)
that's all I was saying. Nothing against or for drugs. My point was that
these women I know are skinny, very thin, and still have this high BP.
so it is not about weight, necessarily. As I say, my BP has always been
normal and I'm fat.
~diane
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM, AnaLog Services, Inc.
<analog@logwell.com >wrote:
> 
>
>
> Many high BP patients simply cannot lower it with wishful thinking. It is
> not uncommon that multiple drugs are required. Weight loss would often
> help, but any clinician will tell you dieting usually does not work in the
> long run. Personally, I think the role of diuretics is not given enough
> attention in older patients.
>
> In any event, your nature's cure approach sounds good, but is not very
> practical in many cases.
>
>
> ----
>
>
- 2c.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:13 am (PST)
That was not directed at you Diane, but at our friend who seems to hate drugs except in the most dire of circumstances, and is not to fond of em even then.
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Moro
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
that's all I was saying. Nothing against or for drugs. My point was that these women I know are skinny, very thin, and still have this high BP.
so it is not about weight, necessarily. As I say, my BP has always been normal and I'm fat.
~diane
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 5:27 PM, AnaLog Services, Inc. <analog@logwell.com > wrote:

Many high BP patients simply cannot lower it with wishful thinking. It is not uncommon that multiple drugs are required. Weight loss would often help, but any clinician will tell you dieting usually does not work in the long run. Personally, I think the role of diuretics is not given enough attention in older patients.
In any event, your nature's cure approach sounds good, but is not very practical in many cases.
----
- 2d.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:18 am (PST)
Syd writes:
<<at our friend who seems to hate drugs except in
the most dire of circumstances, and is not to fond
of em even then.>>
Assuming you mean me, I don't "hate drugs". What
I "hate" is the tendency of the American medical
establishment to assume that drugs are the answer
to all ailments.
I've had to refuse statins many times, including a
cardiac doctor who hadn't even bothered to look at
my records and see how my weight, BP, and
cholesterol had all improved dramatically in just
4 months. I canceled my follow-up with him.
Someday I may see a need for taking statins or
other drugs (more than the metformin I'm on now).
But I will demand reasonable proof that I do, in
fact, need them. I will NOT take an unnecessary
drug, no matter who recommends it.
Holly in MI
- 2e.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:34 am (PST)
velli writes:
<<After five years, I am regularly on fasting BG
of 100 to 120 and PP of 150 to 180. I consider
this normal .>>
And it's about what the ADA recommends. Some
authorities feel lower numbers are actually closer
to non-diabetic norms, and that aiming for lower
levels is healthier. I personally aim for under
100 at all times, and to stay within 10 points of
83 at all times (no, I don't achieve that all the
time, but it's what I aim at nonetheless). I
believe this to represent non-diabetic norms, and
my best chance to reduce the complications I have
and avoid worse ones in the future.
<<Medicines would make me eat the standard
quantity at the right time .>>
Certain medications, yes, but not all. Metformin
(which might or might not be useful in your
situation - that would be for you and your doctor
to decide) doesn't make any such requirement.
<< There was also the feeling that with medicines
you are sort of "hooked" for life on them!>>
Why? I have been able to drop taking micronase
entirely, and have halved my metformin dose, in a
year. Medications are only a tool. As long as
they help more than hinder, they're fine. If they
become more a problem, then it's time to change them.
<<Does anyone think I must go onto the medicines ?>>
It's up to you to set your own BG goals, and then
talk with your doctor about how to achieve those
goals. No one "must" go on any meds - each person
has the power to say no thanks. But some meds
might give you better BG results with the food and
exercise you're doing now; or might allow you more
flexibility with your food.
Bottom line is, what are your personal diabetes
management goals, and what means do you want to
use to achieve those goals? If you're happy where
you are, why change? :)
Holly in MI
- 2f.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed, and new to the group
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:29 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "velliyurvenkatesh@com ..." <velliyurvenkatesh@ ...> wrote: I was diagnosed diabetic from 2003 and the doctor without even a thought wanted to put me on medicine. It was I who refused and asked for how to deal with this without meds. The doctor recommended exercise and diet control. After five years, I am regularly on fasting BG of 100 to 120 and PP of 150 to 180. I consider this normal . Yes also weight loss from 62 kgs to 56 kgs. Not being on meds gives me the flexibility of eating lesser or more food and at flexible times.And making up with lesser or more exercise. Medicines would make me eat the standard quantity at the right time . There was also the feeling that with medicines you are sort of "hooked" for life on them! Does anyone think I must go onto the medicines ? Or can I manage as I have up to now? Will not taking medicines have side effects?>
Welcome to the group, and thanks for introducing yourself.
If you and your doctor are satisfied with your current level of diabetic control, then that's all that really matters-- I'm not sure anyone else gets to have a say! I will tell you, though, that fasting numbers of 100-120 and PP numbers of 150-180 are not "normal". Normal fasting is considered to be 65-99 and therefore PP normal would be about 20-30 points up from any pre-meal test.
Being on insulin would give you the flexibility you're after, and the only side effect is low blood glucose. Whether or not your doctor would approve insulin therapy for you or even if it's even medically indicated for you, I have no idea.
And lastly, no, just because you're put on diabetic medication(s), it certainly doesn't mean you'd always have to be on them. Weight loss, increased exercise, and strict low-carb eating could always mean that you can discontinue those drugs, or at least modify the dosage size, if and when it ever becomes indicated. Most type 2s go through several self-care regimen changes as the years go by, in an effort to stay in good control.
Judy D.
- 3a.
-
Re: New Intro Tina in MI
Posted by: "Faye Ridpath" ispgypsy@gmail.com mommy2marcella
Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:29 am (PST)
What a story, Tina. I'm glad you're still with us.
I mainly lurk so here's a bit about mine. When I was diagnosed my blood
sugar was 450! Well, we finally got it to semi-managed at around 130 when I
tested. Well, at that time I was just on oral meds and diet. Then...
Something very traumatic happened in our lives and I just got very very very
depressed. So... I stopped keeping my doctor's appointments, and quit taking
my meds. Then I realized I needed to get healthy for our daughter's sake and
my husband's too so finally after about a year away, I wrote a letter to my
doctor's office and mailed it basically explaining my personal situation and
asking if I could be his patient again. I had loved him from day one cuz he
said he was going to take some blood and asked if I had a problem with blood
being drawn from me. I said yes, I am terrified of needles and I often get
nauseous and shaky and dizzy so he asked if I would like him to ask one of
his assistants to come in and hold my hand while he did it. I was amazed! I
said yes and it really helped. Anyway so his office called me and said the
doctor wanted to make an appointment. He was not happy with me! He pricked
my finger to test my sugar and I was at 575! He was ready to admit me to the
hospital but I don't like them anymore than I like needles so he compromised
told me to drink lots and lots of fluids come back the next day and if my
sugar was better we'd work with it. He also didn't charge me a co-pay for
the return visit.
Anyway so then after trying meds a bunch the only one that *really* kept my
sugars managed was also way more than I could afford every month. It was
$200 even with my insurance! I told him I can't afford that so finally he
said pretty much he hated to say it but there are no meds left to try and I
should seriously consider insulin. So I did. He had me come into the office
3 times, and Bob (my husband) came too so we could learn how to do the
injections. He didn't charge me co-pays for any of those. So I was using a
syringe but then read about the insulin pen and thought that would be much
easier for me so that's what I use now.
My sugar levels are pretty much managed now. Sometimes I still get high at
around 140 but they are usually between 110 and 119.
~~~Faye~~~
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Tina Ronald <tronald@wildblue.net > wrote:
> I kind of jumped onto another post the other day and thought I would share
> my diabetic story. I am 43 from Howell MI. My father is diabetic and G-ma.
> 19 years ago I was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis. They put me on
> Prednisone and my blood sugar jumped to 500 and would fluctuate according to
> the amount of Pred I was on. They put me on humulin sliding scale while this
> was going on. When I went off Pred the blood levels would return to normal
> and I would go off humilin.
>
> About 10 years ago same thing happened. Back on Predinisone back on Humulin
> and when I went off of the steroid this time I stayed a Type 2 Diabetic.
> Several DRs have changed my meds around. I was on pills, insulin,
> Lantis,Byetta, metformin,advandia. BG was all controlled and fine. Well 2
> weeks before Thanksgiving I was having flu symptoms, Vomitting, diarrhea,
> dehydration etc. Went to my Dr he sent me down for bloodwork to check my
> levels. He scheduled a CT scan because I was having confusion issues. I
> never made it to the CT scheduled for 2 days later because I had to call an
> ambulance because I was dying. I could not catch my breath or walk. I didn't
> know who I was. So they admitted me because I had an infection throughout
> my whole body from my colitis and My BG was over 600 from the infection. I
> was in CCU for 7 days for DKA and complications from my colitis. I have
> found a new DR and my sugars are still high from the Pred. It runs from 170-
> 450 daily. I am on 50 units Lantis at bedtime and Novalog sliding scale with
> meals. I am going to a diabetic class in Jan to learn to eat better and
> learn about Carb counting. I can't do that type of management until I go off
> the Pred in 2 months but I want to learn everything I can. My new Dr
> mentioned it so I started researching it on the net and found this list. So
> that's my tail lol Tina in MI
>
- 3b.
-
Re: New Intro Tina in MI
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:34 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Faye Ridpath <ispgypsy@..com .> wrote:<snip> after trying meds a bunch the only one that *really* kept my sugars managed was also way more than I could afford every month. It was $200 even with my insurance! I told him I can't afford that so finally he said pretty much he hated to say it but there are no meds left to try and Ishould seriously consider insulin. So I did.<snip> My sugar levels are pretty much managed now. Sometimes I still get high at around 140 but they are usually between 110 and 119>
How sad that insulin is considered a therapy of last resort for type 2s. I'm glad you're doing well, Faye, but how much better it would have been if you'd been put on insulin from the get-go (with a glucose level over 500, it would have been warranted, IMO) and could have therefore gotten better so much sooner. Thanks for sharing-- I'm glad you're here.
Judy D.
- 4a.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:58 am (PST)
Hope you had a nice healthy snack!
I tend to agree with your view on this. We humans sometimes forget that we
are products of our evolution, and we are most likely still evolving! (I can
still see it in some people! LOL)
But yeah, our current society is at odds with this evolution in terms of the
food supply and who knows, maybe we will eventually evolve in ways that take
this into consideration. I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean.
I know that I will be presented today with a veritable orgy of food choices
at my daughter's home. All will be nutritious and tasty. And we will no
doubt overeat. But it's not what we do once in a while that truly matters,
it's what we do every day.
At least that's what I'm telling myself today!
Merry Christmas to anyone who is celebrating today.
~diane
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 5:54 PM, AnaLog Services, Inc.
<analog@logwell.com >wrote:
>
>
> It is not that simple, either way. The predilection of humans to obesity
> and diabetes is likely an artifact of natural selection. Is a failure of
> will involved in obesity? Probably almost always. But there are
> evolutionary reasons why we tend to eat too much in times of plenty, and why
> we have a tendency to develop diabetes. In fact, I am heading to the
> kitchen for a snack as soon as I push the send button, speaking of failure
> of wills.
>
> For a clue, take a look at the fertility symbology that survives from
> antiquity (and the symbology for rich and prosperous individuals in
> general). Those females are obese by our standards, but it probably never
> had a chance to hurt em with a short life expectancy. We live in different
> times now, but the effects of natural selection lag very much behind human
> history (and besides, the benefits to post reproductive individuals really
> is not a factor in natural selection).
>
>
- 4b.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:10 am (PST)
Holly I think you are a very bright, insightful woman, and are really doing
a wonderful job of taking care of yourself. I am in complete agreement that
if we consume only veggie carbs, no grain carbs or very little, we will be
healthier. No doubt because I have felt it firsthand myself.
The problem becomes, at least for me, that after some time, I lose
motivation It's usually around the 6-9 month mark, where I find myself
struggling with food choices again, sometimes out of sheer boredom at eating
the same things, sometimes frustration at not losing more weight, sometimes
it's the holidays and people around me are indulging....it can be any number
of things.
I love taking my grandkids to the movies and movies for me means popcorn,
period. It's a ritual and I love it. It brings back memories of Saturdays
spent in movie theaters watching two movies and a cartoon with my friends.
Sitting in the dark munching on warm salty kernels, licking my greasy
fingers, all the while being entertained by Frankenstein or Jerry Lewis...
Food is intertwined in our lives with so many other things. This has always
been an issue for me.
I just shared with you a tiny little piece of me, a piece that has prevented
me from losing weight and perhaps being a better person, who knows?
But the kids still love to share movies with grandma~
~diane
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
> I know, a lot of you will think I'm pretty slow on
> the uptake, and you're probably right :) But I
> haven't been anywhere near a normal weight before
> in 3 decades, plus I haven't had to count calories
> at all in this weight loss process this time. And
> I've not seen this whole concept laid out
> *anywhere* in all the research I've done in books
> and on the internet, just bits and pieces here and
> there.
>
>
- 4c.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:16 am (PST)
I don't think I would measure the worth of a person by their food choices, or even by a lack of will power when it comes to food. That is to say, your food choices are not keeping you from being a better person, only a thinner person. Obsessive compulsive behavior is not the way to deal with diabetes. It only leads to other problems.
That being said, I am the living proof that bad food choices can (almost) kill a person. But I sure do love to eat! Those Chinese all-you-can-eat places are my ruination.
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Moro
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Holly I think you are a very bright, insightful woman, and are really doing a wonderful job of taking care of yourself. I am in complete agreement that if we consume only veggie carbs, no grain carbs or very little, we will be healthier. No doubt because I have felt it firsthand myself.
The problem becomes, at least for me, that after some time, I lose motivation It's usually around the 6-9 month mark, where I find myself struggling with food choices again, sometimes out of sheer boredom at eating the same things, sometimes frustration at not losing more weight, sometimes it's the holidays and people around me are indulging....it can be any number of things.
I love taking my grandkids to the movies and movies for me means popcorn, period. It's a ritual and I love it. It brings back memories of Saturdays spent in movie theaters watching two movies and a cartoon with my friends. Sitting in the dark munching on warm salty kernels, licking my greasy fingers, all the while being entertained by Frankenstein or Jerry Lewis...
Food is intertwined in our lives with so many other things. This has always been an issue for me.
I just shared with you a tiny little piece of me, a piece that has prevented me from losing weight and perhaps being a better person, who knows?
But the kids still love to share movies with grandma~
~diane
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
I know, a lot of you will think I'm pretty slow on
the uptake, and you're probably right :) But I
haven't been anywhere near a normal weight before
in 3 decades, plus I haven't had to count calories
at all in this weight loss process this time. And
I've not seen this whole concept laid out
*anywhere* in all the research I've done in books
and on the internet, just bits and pieces here and
there.
- 4d.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:14 am (PST)
Diane writes:
<<The problem becomes, at least for me, that after
some time, I lose
motivation >>
We *all* have that problem from time to time -
it's not unique to you, or to me :) That's why I
keep stressing all my personal motivators -
complications I hope to avoid or see improved,
feeling better on a daily basis, seeing better
numbers on the meter, etc. Each person has to
find her/his own motivators - that which will
enable each of us to stay on our bandwagons, and
get back on when we fall off.
<< It's usually around the 6-9 month mark, where I
find myself
struggling with food choices again, sometimes out
of sheer boredom at eating
the same things, sometimes frustration at not
losing more weight, sometimes
it's the holidays and people around me are
indulging....it can be any number
of things.>>
Again, we all face these same issues. What can I
do to plan ahead and avoid those problems? How
can I make my food more varied? What can I
indulge in that will satisfy me, without going
overboard on carbs? How can I keep my focus on BG
control instead of weight loss? I'm a reasonably
intelligent, highly motivated person with a LOT of
will power, as I know now. What can I do to
harness those attributes so that I will make
healthy choices for *me*?
<<I love taking my grandkids to the movies and
movies for me means popcorn,
period. It's a ritual and I love it.>>
I LOVE popcorn :) That buttery, salty stuff is
perhaps my favorite carb of all time. I
especially love movie-theater popcorn, and
microwave popcorn with that flavor comes in a very
close second.
And I haven't had any in over 16 months now. I
don't dare, as I know it would start the cravings
again, which would lead me down the slippery
slope. I *cannot* be moderate about concentrated
carbs, so I don't indulge in those at all. I
can't even buy salted nuts anymore <sigh> :)
Also, I don't have grandkids yet. I want to still
be alive to enjoy them when they finally start
arriving (if ever! :) I want to have eyesight to
see the movie with them. I want to have both my
feet so I can drive them to the theater. I want
my brain to be intact enough that I can talk about
the movie with them. Etc.
Each of us has to make choices that are difficult.
Each of us has to find motivators that *work* so
we can get back on track when we fall off. These
work for me. I don't know what would work for
others; I can only share what works for me and
hope others will see some little thing that sparks
an idea that helps them in their quest to control
the effects of this disease.
<<I just shared with you a tiny little piece of
me, a piece that has prevented
me from losing weight and perhaps being a better
person, who knows?>>
There's that moral judgment again :) YOU ARE A
GOOD PERSON, DIANE!!!! Whether you eat the whole
theater's popcorn supply or eat none at all,
whether you lose weight or not, whether you
control your BG to your satisfaction or not :)
I'm GLAD to know you a little through this list.
I'm GLAD you chose to post your struggles and (I
hope) successes. I'm GLAD you take the chance to
reveal what's going on with you. I learn from all
of it, and thank you from the bottom of my heart
for sharing.
{{{{{{{{{{{{Diane}}}} }}}}}}}}
I hope for you a change in the New Year that will
let you find your strength and whatever motivators
that will make you feel better in 2010 and for
many, many years to come.
Holly in MI
- 5a.
-
Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Dolores" djdesi98@gmail.com djdesideri
Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:01 am (PST)
I have many medical problems and just added diabetes to the list. I want to educate myself ahead of taking classes and etc. so I can ask better questions and comprehend more of what is being taught. Please recommend some books for me to read. Been looking at Amazon, but don't know what is best.
dolores
- 5b.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:23 am (PST)
Dolores writes:
<<Please recommend some books for me to read. Been
looking at Amazon, but don't know what is best.>>
The best first read on T2 diabetes IMO is Gretchen
Becker's _Type 2 Diabetes: The First Year_. I
read it twice with extremely fluctuating eyesight
in my first 6 weeks after diagnosis :)
Gretchen lays out all the current understanding of
diabetes, explains what all the medical
terminology means, talks about various food
philosophy, explains the basics of exercise, and
much, much more. It's a fantastic book, one I
lent to my diabetes nurse educator and she ordered
copies for her own reference and to loan to other
diabetes. I have moved beyond the basics it
explains, but still reread it occasionally to keep
it all fresh.
While you're waiting for whatever books you choose
to arrive, do ask questions here! There's a
wealth of varying experience that will help you
figure out how to best manage this disease :)
Holly in MI
- 5c.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:38 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "Dolores" <djdesi98@..com .> wrote:
I have many medical problems and just added diabetes to the list. I want to educate myself ahead of taking classes and etc. so I can ask better questions and comprehend more of what is being taught. Please recommend some books for me to read. Been looking at Amazon, but don't know what is best. dolores>
Welcome, Dolores. "Diabetes for Dummies" and "Calorie King 2009" are good ones, and not too costly.
Judy D.
- 5d.
-
Re: Newly diagnosed and looking for books
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:55 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Holly Shaltz <holly@...> wrote: The best first read on T2 diabetes IMO is Gretchencom
> Becker's _Type 2 Diabetes: The First Year_.>>
I need one entitled, "Type 2 Diabetes, The Thirty-Third Year".
No, really, I'm not kidding! <G> I really do!
Judy D.
- 6a.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:46 am (PST)
Syd writes:
<< Is a failure of will involved in obesity?
Probably almost always. >>
I object to this very strongly. IR and a craving
for carbs is a result of diabetes. I was unable
to lose weight in spite of years of going to OA
meetings, weighing and measuring my food, weighing
myself regularly, calling my sponsor daily,
walking, and eating "healthy" by American
standards. There was no shortage of will involved
in all that, yet it didn't work.
It wasn't until I ate simply to control my BG,
reducing carbs as needed toward that goal, that I
was able to lose weight. And there's no shortage
of will involved here, either. It takes will
power every single day for me to make the
healthiest choices for me: continue to low-carb,
continue to exercise, continue to test my BG, and
continue to face the numbers on the meter. I
don't lack will power, though I kicked myself for
that for years, as does probably every obese
person out there. What I lacked was the tools and
information I needed to make all that will power
actually do some good.
It's said that diabetes might originally have been
a survival thing - people who gained easily (IR at
work) were able to survive famines more easily. I
don't know about that. But I do know that
controlling BGs down to the non-diabetic level
through reducing carbs results in weight loss.
And there's plenty of info out there about how
Americans as a whole have gained tremendous
amounts of weight over the same decades in which
"low-fat" diets were touted as healthier and carb
consumption massively increased as fat consumption
dropped just as dramatically.
Eating carbs makes BG go up for diabetics.
Insulin that can't move the glucose into cells for
energy due to IR stores the glucose as fat. It's
that simple. Carb craving continues as long as
carbs are consumed and the vicious cycle
continues. There's no need to drag moral
judgments such as "failure of will" into the
picture. It's simple physiology.
I judged myself harshly for *decades* as lacking
will power, and was judged by others, from my
mother to doctors to probably many people who saw
me waddling around. I cringed at every discussion
of weight loss in my presence, even when I knew it
wasn't aimed at me. I sobbed when I finally had
the diabetes diagnosis because I was deathly
afraid of white-knuckled cravings that I would
give into over and over. Now I know better *and*
feel better. And I have tried to communicate what
I've learned with others so that they'll have the
tools they need to lose weight and feel better -
and most importantly, control their BGs.
Holly in MI
- 6b.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:54 am (PST)
Holly in MN writes:
<< Current medical thought is that obesity causes
diabetes. But what if it is the other way around?
What if it is the diabetes that is causing the
obesity? >>
Current medical thought is usually wrong - just
blink and a new "study" will come out "proving"
something new and different :)
I hope someday the IR-causes-obesity theory will
be studied, but I'm not going to wait on the
results! I'm *so* grateful I had the internet to
use to do the research, and my own self to
experiment on :) *I* know the connection is
there, even if "authorities" refuse to see it.
It's my belief that most people, at least in the
US, who start seeing "middle-aged spread", joint
aches and pains, lower energy, and lower brain
function are not seeing just the results of
getting older - they're seeing the early effects
of T2 diabetes. How can that be studied and
"proven"? We'd have to have populations followed
from birth, which probably ain't gonna happen.
Thankfully, I can act even if no one ever studies
the information I'm acting on!
<<What if the medical community became more
aggressive in treating diabetes early? Would there
be less obesity? >>
It's really sad to think of all those people out
there, like me, going for decades without
diagnosis, kicking themselves for being fat,
thinking of themselves as lazy and weak, and
getting unhealthier by the day. Supposedly it
saves money for health insurance companies. Yeah,
right - like obesity doesn't result in more health
issues, and therefore more money, when it's not
dealt with in a timely manner! And supposedly "no
one" is willing to go low-carb enough to treat
their diabetes and weight loss that way. Yeah,
right again! There's dozens, probably hundreds,
of low-carb blogs, forums, and websites proving
that many people are willing to eat low-carb to
control their diabetes, lose weight even without
official diabetes, and just to have better quality
of life overall.
Eating low-carb is a realistic, inexpensive,
viable, workable, healthy, effective approach to
managing T2 diabetes. It makes me MAD to think
the ADA and other "authorities" have tried to deny
me the knowledge to make that choice for myself
because they think I can't do it. Thank goodness
for the internet! If I had to wait on my HCP to
tell me low-carbing works for BG control and
weight loss, I'd still be at least 50 pounds
overweight and have sky-high BGs!
Sorry - frustration coming out there :)
Holly in MI
- 6c.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "teresa young" b33charmer@yahoo.com b33charmer
Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:03 am (PST)
Thank you Holly for writing this. I did the very same thing. If I did lose weight it came back triple. Getting My Type 2 Diabetes under control with low Carbs and taking Metformin has helped me lose weight. I though I was a failure and just doomed to stay that way. I now have left around 60 pounds still to lose. I have lost 148 pounds.  I lost 52 pounds after I was diagnosed and the rest before that at an ounce at a time. It was very hard to lose. I was diagnosed back around August 2009.  I was beating myself up because I could not be successful. My nutritionist told me Weight Watchers Program ( as a lot of other programs that I tried.) was too many Carbs. For me she did not recommend it.
She also told me being insulin resistantÂmakes it a visious cycle. I do not know which comes first in this disease the egg or the Chicken: personally I do believe I was born this way. I have so much more energy now (I still have my days though of feeling bad, I also have seasonal depression). I am praying that when and I said when I lose the 60 pounds I will be able to go to a lower dose of Meformin or not have to take medication at all; But I will deal with what ever comes.   LOL  I am like Whoopi Goldberg in the Movie Color Purple.  " I may be Ugly, I may be Poor but by Gods I am hear."  LOL  I know this is not the exact quote. But I loved this in this Movie.  LOL Hurray for her!!!! She will deal with what life brings her; God put her hear for a purpose.
Thank you every one for being here.
This group has really help me to love myself and take that forward step although I mostly read.
Merry Christmas and Happy Hanuka --- Many blessing for the New Year to come for everyone.
Tessie
_____________________ _________ __
From: Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com >
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:48:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Â
Syd writes:
<< Is a failure of will involved in obesity?
Probably almost always. >>
I object to this very strongly. IR and a craving
for carbs is a result of diabetes. I was unable
to lose weight in spite of years of going to OA
meetings, weighing and measuring my food, weighing
myself regularly, calling my sponsor daily,
walking, and eating "healthy" by American
standards. There was no shortage of will involved
in all that, yet it didn't work.
It wasn't until I ate simply to control my BG,
reducing carbs as needed toward that goal, that I
was able to lose weight. And there's no shortage
of will involved here, either. It takes will
power every single day for me to make the
healthiest choices for me: continue to low-carb,
continue to exercise, continue to test my BG, and
continue to face the numbers on the meter. I
don't lack will power, though I kicked myself for
that for years, as does probably every obese
person out there. What I lacked was the tools and
information I needed to make all that will power
actually do some good.
It's said that diabetes might originally have been
a survival thing - people who gained easily (IR at
work) were able to survive famines more easily. I
don't know about that. But I do know that
controlling BGs down to the non-diabetic level
through reducing carbs results in weight loss.
And there's plenty of info out there about how
Americans as a whole have gained tremendous
amounts of weight over the same decades in which
"low-fat" diets were touted as healthier and carb
consumption massively increased as fat consumption
dropped just as dramatically.
Eating carbs makes BG go up for diabetics.
Insulin that can't move the glucose into cells for
energy due to IR stores the glucose as fat. It's
that simple. Carb craving continues as long as
carbs are consumed and the vicious cycle
continues. There's no need to drag moral
judgments such as "failure of will" into the
picture. It's simple physiology.
I judged myself harshly for *decades* as lacking
will power, and was judged by others, from my
mother to doctors to probably many people who saw
me waddling around. I cringed at every discussion
of weight loss in my presence, even when I knew it
wasn't aimed at me. I sobbed when I finally had
the diabetes diagnosis because I was deathly
afraid of white-knuckled cravings that I would
give into over and over. Now I know better *and*
feel better. And I have tried to communicate what
I've learned with others so that they'll have the
tools they need to lose weight and feel better -
and most importantly, control their BGs.
Holly in MI
- 6d.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "ott chip" ottchip2006@yahoo.com ottchip2006
Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:23 am (PST)
Well, I hope you are having a low carb holiday. I was able to "control" myself yesterday and did not run the numbers out of sight. One thing this disease does to those who try to maintain control over it, is teach strengh through will power. Merry Christmas.
ott
- 6e.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:25 pm (PST)
Tessie writes:
<< I though I was a failure and just doomed to
stay that way. >>
You, and me, and a whole bunch of other people who
can't lose weight and who don't or didn't know
they're diabetic <sigh>
<< I have lost 148 pounds. >>
WOW!!!! That's amazing and fantastic! I hope you
feel a lot better, too?
<<My nutritionist told me Weight Watchers Program
( as a lot of other programs that I tried.) was
too many Carbs. >>
You're fortunate she understands the needs of
diabetics - mine still "deeply disapproves" my
low-carb food. I do know diabetics on Weight
Watchers who are happy with their progress - just
goes to show yet again that many can control their
BGs and lose weight on more carbs than I can :)
<<I also have seasonal depression>>
Have you tried taking Vit D for that? I've read
in many places it really helps.
<<This group has really help me to love myself and
take that forward step although I mostly read.>>
I'm glad you decided to share your progress - it's
wonderful to hear what others do :)
Happy Holidays!
Holly in MI
I hate to sound like Pollyanna, but I'd far rather
be diagnosed, low-carbing my Christmas, and
feeling GREAT than still sick and eating lots of
goodies :)
- 6f.
-
Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:12 pm (PST)
Of course a failure of will is involved in obesity. It would be absurd to argue otherwise, And of course various metabolic problems can be a factor. Problem is that many folks actually gain weight once the get their BG under control, so a simplistic view of this is obviously inadequate.
----- Original Message -----
From: Holly Shaltz
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Type-2-Diabetes] Re: BFO: carbs, calories, and weight loss :)
Syd writes:
<< Is a failure of will involved in obesity?
Probably almost always. >>
I object to this very strongly. IR and a craving
for carbs is a result of diabetes. I was unable
to lose weight in spite of years of going to OA
meetings, weighing and measuring my food, weighing
myself regularly, calling my sponsor daily,
walking, and eating "healthy" by American
standards. There was no shortage of will involved
in all that, yet it didn't work.
It wasn't until I ate simply to control my BG,
reducing carbs as needed toward that goal, that I
was able to lose weight. And there's no shortage
of will involved here, either. It takes will
power every single day for me to make the
healthiest choices for me: continue to low-carb,
continue to exercise, continue to test my BG, and
continue to face the numbers on the meter. I
don't lack will power, though I kicked myself for
that for years, as does probably every obese
person out there. What I lacked was the tools and
information I needed to make all that will power
actually do some good.
It's said that diabetes might originally have been
a survival thing - people who gained easily (IR at
work) were able to survive famines more easily. I
don't know about that. But I do know that
controlling BGs down to the non-diabetic level
through reducing carbs results in weight loss.
And there's plenty of info out there about how
Americans as a whole have gained tremendous
amounts of weight over the same decades in which
"low-fat" diets were touted as healthier and carb
consumption massively increased as fat consumption
dropped just as dramatically.
Eating carbs makes BG go up for diabetics.
Insulin that can't move the glucose into cells for
energy due to IR stores the glucose as fat. It's
that simple. Carb craving continues as long as
carbs are consumed and the vicious cycle
continues. There's no need to drag moral
judgments such as "failure of will" into the
picture. It's simple physiology.
I judged myself harshly for *decades* as lacking
will power, and was judged by others, from my
mother to doctors to probably many people who saw
me waddling around. I cringed at every discussion
of weight loss in my presence, even when I knew it
wasn't aimed at me. I sobbed when I finally had
the diabetes diagnosis because I was deathly
afraid of white-knuckled cravings that I would
give into over and over. Now I know better *and*
feel better. And I have tried to communicate what
I've learned with others so that they'll have the
tools they need to lose weight and feel better -
and most importantly, control their BGs.
Holly in MI
- 6g.
-
weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:52 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Holly Shaltz <holly@...> wrote:<snip> I was unable to lose weight in spite of years of going to OA meetings, weighing and measuring my food, weighing myself regularly, calling my sponsor daily, walking, and eating "healthy" by American standards. There was no shortage of will involved in all that, yet it didn't work. It wasn't until I ate simply to control my BG, reducing carbs as needed toward that goal, that I was able to lose weight. And there's no shortage of will involved here, either. It takes will power every single day for me to make the healthiest choices for me <snip>com
I wish you all the best, Holly, you know I do, and the comments I make here are not aimed specifically at you but are about all people who lose weight.
The acid test (for you, or anyone else) is not whether you've found your own personal magic bullet OR if you have enough will power to bite the thing; the acid test is if you can keep on doing what you've found to work, day after week after month after year. Will you still be riding this train next year? In 2020? For the rest of your life?
Most anyone can lose weight, 100s of pounds, if necessary, using a whole ream of different methods or combination of methods, God knows. But where the rubber meets the road is-- will those pounds stay off or not, long term?
I don't know what the statistics are anymore, but I know they're abysmal. A large (huge) majority of weight losers will regain it all back, and then some, within 5 years. I think the percentage is something like 80+%, and it could be higher than that.
Sorry if this sounds gloomy and too depressing for words, but at this stage in my life, I feel as though I've been there, done that, lost that and regained it again, and I do sometimes wonder, what the feck is the sense of doing it all over again, if all the ugly pounds are just going to come back? When I lost 100 lbs back in 1990, I felt I had seen the light; I swore to god that was IT; I would NEVER regain that hideous lump of fat, and I would do WHATEVER it took to keep if off, but guess what? Yep. I weigh 75 lbs more now than I did when I started that program. Hmmmm. Food (no pun) for thought.
Judy D.
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*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
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