Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Thanks for all the help & your opinion please From: Aron
- 1b.
- Re: Thanks for all the help & your opinion please From: jayne Cathcart
- 2a.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Adam Jensen
- 2b.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Louis Diaz
- 2c.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: brian.tubbs
- 2d.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Ted Marshall
- 2e.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: mommabagel@aol.com
- 2f.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: mommabagel@aol.com
- 2g.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Ron Ziegler
- 2h.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Dave Guyer
- 2i.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author
- 2j.
- If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me... From: Pat Fields
- 2k.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Dave Guyer
- 2l.
- Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me... From: Allison Herschede
- 2m.
- Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me... From: Ted Marshall
- 2n.
- Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me... From: Ron Ziegler
- 2o.
- Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems From: Jamie Weisbrod
- 3a.
- restarting failed Navigator sensors From: Adam Jensen
- 3b.
- Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors From: diana linehan
- 3c.
- Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors From: Lizabeth
- 3d.
- Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors From: Adam Jensen
- 3e.
- Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors From: dmslof@yahoo.com
- 3f.
- Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors From: Alissa Levenberg
- 4a.
- Re: what size hyperfix to order From: mommabagel@aol.com
- 5.
- Ping/Dexcom combo From: Bonnie
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: Thanks for all the help & your opinion please
Posted by: "Aron" medowa@sbcglobal.net glucowatcher
Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:36 am (PST)
Jennie,
The immune benefit you speak of would only apply if the beta cells or
pancreas came from the person's own body in the first place. Your body will
always attack a foreign invader and any transplant that is somebody else's
tissue will be considered foreign. A stem cell solution would also fit the
bill for avoiding this but your presentation made it appear that you
thought any transplant would dodge the need for immune suppression and I am
(reasonably) certain this is not the case.
Cheers!
Aron
This is a tough call but if it were me, I'd sign up for the surgery. I
would want the control. After 2 kids in 3 years, I have found myself in a
body that I don't understand very well and I am completely BG unaware, both
high and low. But because, I know that goes in (both insulin and food) I
have better predictability than I would in your situation. However, I opt
for a higher A1C (like 7-7.5) because I am safe that way. Yes I know that I
may have some long term complication, however, for me, I'll risk seeing my
kids graduate from high school to ensure I see them graduate from nursery
school. I have recently had a few close calls with potentially fatal lows
following baby #2.
If you used insulin, you would have a clue of what to anticipate. For me,
I'd do this in a heartbeat instead of the risk factory you are currently
dealing with.
On a side note, you still would not have T1. You would be completely
artificial insulin dependent but TI diabetes involves and autoimmune process
that you would not have. For example, if you have new islet cells
implanted, your body would not likely kill like mine would. And although an
extreme option, would a transplant be an option??
Good luck with your decision.
Jennie
- 1b.
-
Re: Thanks for all the help & your opinion please
Posted by: "jayne Cathcart" jaynea.cathcart@btinternet.com jayne6287
Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:53 am (PST)
Jennie
I assume from reading this that you do not have a CGMS system - get one and avoid these dangerous lows. I would have given anything to have had the availability of my Dexcom seven plus when my kids were small but it wasn't available back in 1981. As a wee note of encouragement I did then, when rearing my kids, what you are doing now (keeping A1c at 7 - 7.5 or higher at times) and thankfully did not get diabetes complications.
Good luck
Jayne
--- On Mon, 28/12/09, Aron <medowa@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
From: Aron <medowa@sbcglobal.net >
Subject: RE: [diabetescgms] Thanks for all the help & your opinion please
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, 28 December, 2009, 10:36
Jennie,
The immune benefit you speak of would only apply if the beta
cells or pancreas came from the person's own body in the first place. Your
body will always attack a foreign invader and any transplant that is somebody
else's tissue will be considered foreign. A stem cell solution would also fit
the bill for avoiding this but your presentation made it appear that you thought
any transplant would dodge the need for immune suppression and I am
(reasonably) certain this is not the case.
Cheers!
Aron
This is a
tough call but if it were me, I'd sign up for the surgery. I would want
the control. After 2 kids in 3 years, I have found myself in a body that
I don't understand very well and I am completely BG unaware, both high and
low. But because, I know that goes in (both insulin and food) I have
better predictability than I would in your situation. However, I opt for
a higher A1C (like 7-7.5) because I am safe that way. Yes I know that I
may have some long term complication, however, for me, I'll risk seeing my kids
graduate from high school to ensure I see them graduate from nursery
school. I have recently had a few close calls with potentially
fatal lows following baby #2.
If you
used insulin, you would have a clue of what to anticipate. For me, I'd do
this in a heartbeat instead of the risk factory you are currently dealing
with.
On a side
note, you still would not have T1. You would be completely artificial
insulin dependent but TI diabetes involves and autoimmune process that you
would not have. For example, if you have new islet cells implanted, your
body would not likely kill like mine would. And although an extreme
option, would a transplant be an option??
Good luck
with your decision.
Jennie
- 2a.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Adam Jensen" adam.jensen@gmail.com adamixoye
Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:04 am (PST)
Jeff,
I understand the size issue is a barrier to many people with regard to the
Navigator, but if trending information and alarms are so important to you it
might be worth reconsidering.
Adam
- 2b.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Louis Diaz" louis.diaz@gmail.com louissdiaz
Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:43 am (PST)
Thank you for the report. It would have been helpful to see the isig values
included in the table. We find that as the value goes down, so does the
accuracy.
Thanks again.
On Dec 28, 2009 12:21 AM, "Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author" <
jeff@incredibleassemblies.com > wrote:
I just completed a trial of the Dexcom Seven Plus and the Medtronic
Paradigm CGMS. I chose not to evaluate the Navigator because of its size. I
was asked to provide a report on my findings here when I was done, so here
goes:
Comparing CGM systems
Before starting a trial, you need to ask yourself, "What is the MOST
CRITICAL assistance that YOU need from a system?"
For me, that was pretty easy. I have hypoglycemic unawareness and, after
finding myself behind the steering wheel on one of Boston's busiest highways
during rush hour with a blood glucose level of 24 mg/dL, I knew I needed
help. (Actually, I didn't know I needed help then – I had to raise my blood
glucose level first.) My most dangerous scenarios are when I am driving and
when I am sleeping.
My top 5 priorities fell like this:
1) Accuracy, especially in low range
a. I need to know that I am about to be unfit to drive BEFORE I am
unfit to drive. I need to be woken up and told that I am in danger of
hitting a low from which I will NOT wake up---BEFORE I get to that point.
2) Consistent discernable warning when sugar falls below 50
a. False alarms are better than missed alarms
b. Easy to understand, even if I'm very low
c. Ability to ignore future alarms, if it is stable or trending
upwards
d. Warning for highs, but accuracy there is not as important as it is
for the lows
3) Good use model for sleeping
a. No loss of transmission while sleeping. Alarm if that happens, but
I don't want extra wake-ups if it can be avoided.
b. Alarm that will wake me
4) Not too uncomfortable
a. I don't want to feel it day in and day out
b. Low insertion pain (Okay, I'm a wimp and I like to avoid pain
whenever possible.)
5) Durable and abuse-able
a. Survives my school visit floor-diving, etc.
b. Survives in basketball and winter ultimate
So, how did they do? They both did fairly well and I'll include additional
categories in addition to MY top 5.
1) Accuracy, especially in low range: advantage DEXCOM
Medtronic explained that the technology measures the interstitial fluid
glucose level, which lags the blood glucose level. If that were the whole
story, I would expect to see the 2 systems with the same delayed response. I
did not see that. I'm not going to deal with the difference in lag time, per
se. As users, the time domain needs to tell us trends, but that needs to be
coupled with the key question, "where am I at RIGHT NOW?" One could argue
that this information comes from a blood glucose measurement, while the
trending information comes from the CGMS. I would argue that it would be
nice to get both pieces from 1 source and use the blood testing as the
reality tether. That is exactly how I plan to use my new DEXCOM system.
I am including data from my trial. BE CAREFUL NOT TO INFER THAT THIS
REPRESENTS HOW THE SYSTEMS WILL PERFORM IN *YOUR* BODY. Everyone is
different.
Data (all readings are mg/dL):
DexCom Medtronic Blood test finger stick
Time
46 92
63 5:17P D1
51 78
46 6:30
166 118
171 8:00
61 84
71 10:27
173 142
192 5:15A D2
151 131
157 8:00A (recal. MM only)
51 76
32 4:40P
60 65
57 5:32P
224 165
221 9:12P (recal. MM only)
63 104
40 10:29P
59 84
60 11:16P (recal. MM only)
54 91
45 11:52P
80 85
62 12:40A D3
47 77
44 6:14 (recal. MM only)
86 74
77 10:07 (no recalibration)
53 67
43 11:40
70 60
66 12:20 (no recalibration)
97 75
84 2:25P
49 66
43 10:03P
117 115
109 7:49A D4 (no recalibration)
51 75
52 8:35 (recal. MM only)
68 69
50 10:20
59 81
64 12:20 (recal. MM only)
52 68
52 12:40 (recal. MM only)
42 57
49 1:22 (no recalibration)
2) Consistent discernable warning when sugar falls below 50: advantage
DEXCOM
Though both systems were set to alarm when I hit 60 or below, I got low
warnings from the Dexcom system before the Medtronic EVERY SINGLE TIME. In
fact, I got no warnings from the Minimed system until after recalibrating a
couple of times because it didn't think I had gone that low. Both systems
were easy enough to understand. The Dexcom system offered a simple
adjustment of the "snooze" feature (not bothering me for another half-hour
or another 5 hours if my sugar is still low).
3) Good use model for sleeping: advantage DEXCOM
I was able to lose transmission with BOTH systems while in bed, pushing the
transmitter into the mattress by laying directly on it and, for Dexcom,
putting the receiver between 2 pillows. Communication problems seem to be
plausible for both systems. The Dex automatically reconnected as soon as it
could. The Minimed would have wanted me to go through a "find lost sensor"
routine while I was sleeping.
Both alarms can wake me up, but I found the Dexcom combination of sound with
vibration to be the best solution.
4) Not too uncomfortable: advantage DEXCOM (daily), advantage
Medtronic (insertion)
This is definitely an individual issue. You need to try this for yourself.
For me, the Minimed sensor started itching the 2nd day it was in, and it was
a very bothersome annoyance until I took it out on day 4. The Dexcom sensor
started itching on day 8 but the itching was mild, recurring maybe once or
twice in a day.
Minimed had the insertion advantage. Insertion angle is critical for
Minimed, but they have a spring-loaded inserter. Dexcom expects you to push
theirs in like a syringe. The Dexcom sensor is a smaller gauge needle,
making it less painful, but the Minimed inserter makes things easier and
reduces the pain.
5) Durable and abuse-able: advantage BOTH
Both systems were able to survive my floor diving and basketball clumsiness.
I was unable to play winter ultimate during the trial to test that
environment.
6) EASE OF USE: advantage DEXCOM
The ability to calibrate anytime, stable or unstable, is a distinct
advantage for Dex. Medtronic advises to calibrate only when stable and that
does help with their product, but the 7+ doesn't care as much. I ran into
calibration issues with both systems (calibrating Medtronic while unstable
and calibrating Dexcom with very high BG and not recalibrating as I got
lower).
Transmission loss: After 40 minutes or so, Medtronic requires a "find lost
sensor" routine. Dex simply reconnects automatically and moves on.
Dex has no worries about ISIG numbers or insertion angles or stability for
initial calibrations.
7) Customer support: advantage MEDTRONIC
Medtronic has a 24/7 help line, staffed, for the most part, with people who
really want to help. In late hours, Dexcom has people on call. I tried this
route and was unable to get a call back before I had to leave my house. Live
people were helpful and courteous.
8) EASE OF EVALUATION: advantage MEDTRONIC
The first thing I want to say is that the Clinical Specialists who trained
me on each of the systems were WONDERFUL. Both were very knowledgeable,
friendly, and accommodating. Dexcom forced my doctor's office into giving
up a room (and they are very short on space) and I had to drive there.
Medronic made it easy and came right to my house.
I did run into 2 bad DEXCOM sensors to start off the evaluation period. This
turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it forced me to evaluate the two
systems head-to-head, or stomach-to-stomach, as it were.
The Medronic system had better transmission range. If you are going to
perform a trial with both systems, isolate them on different sides of your
body. I did find that the Dexcom receiver seemed to suffer from some
interference when placed too closely to the Minimed transmitter (sensor). On
opposite sides of the body, they each did fine.
The Dex transmitter has an internal "2 year" battery and does not have to be
removed for recharging. The Dex receiver needs to be recharged every few
days. It does function while it is charging but its range is reduced.
The Medtronic system means less hardware to carry around, but I find the
accuracy difference worth the extra piece of hardware. One other interesting
note: my Medtronic pump can receive data from my blood tester. I was told to
turn this off when using their CGM (otherwise it would recalibrate at every
reading, which is non-optimal) whereas I can use this Medtronic feature if I
DON'T use their CGM. Had their engineers added an OPTION to use the
transmitted value for calibration (as they have done for the hand-entered
values), they would not have created an advantage for their competition.
Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and trend. Neither system
offered that to me, but even just a level-based alarm is a huge life-saving
leap over what I had before.
So that's the info from my eval. Now, I am going to bed (with my Dex trial
sensor still in – 12th day – telling me that I am at a stable 91 mg/dL and
my finger stick reading just 3 mg/dL higher).
Warm regards to all,
-jeff toll-free: 1-888-967-3386
*Award-Winning Children's Author, Jeff Nathan, presents*
*Curricu**Laughs** *
*Curriculum-tied Language Arts Education through HUMOR*
"... by far, the best set of presentations I have seen in our school system
."
* Dr. Marc Kerble Assistant Superintendent Winchester Schools
Winchester, MA*
"… a student said it best. "You Rock!" From the mouth of babes, Jeff you
were sensational. Thank you ever so much!"
* Kristine O. Murray Media Enrichment Specialist Maghakian Memorial
School Brookline, NH *
see these and other raving testimonials at www.IncredibleAssemblies.com
- 2c.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "brian.tubbs" brian.tubbs@yahoo.com brian.tubbs
Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:26 am (PST)
We ran a side by side comparison a year ago (a 7yr old wore both Devices at the same time for 6days). The dexcom was more Accurate. When our MM sensor died, we switched to dexcom and had no issue with insurance coverage. We are happy with dexcom but miss some of MM extras. We too are looking forward to animas with Dexcom, I'm hoping for more bells and whistles
--- In diabetescgms@yahoogroups. , Elizabeth Blake <poodlebone@com ...> wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your comparison of the two systems. From your data, it looks like Dexcom is doing a much better job but it could also be that there was a problem with that particular Minimed sensor. I rarely see such big differences like that anymore. I do find that MM lags too much in detecting lows and that's why I have my low alarm set for 78. I do end up getting annoying alarms when my BGs are stable. I see nothing wrong with steady readings in the 70s while I'm awake and not doing anything strenuous. I also find that it doesn't catch my highs well when I'm asleep but does much getter when I'm awake & moving around. Minimed's sensors do not seem to like inactivity.
>
> I'm looking forward to Dexcom integrating with Animas in the future. I would be willing to switch from a Minimed pump, although I have been very happy with both of my Minimed pumps so far. I have pretty good luck with the MM CGMS but I'm wondering if my insurance would cover Dexcom when my transmitter finally stops working. I've been using it for 1 1/2 years and I know it doesn't have that much time left.
>
> --
> Liz
> Type 1 dx 4/1987
> Minimed 722 + CGMS
>
>
> >
> >From: "Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author" <jeff@...>
> >To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
> >Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 12:20:39 AM
> >Subject: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >I just completed a trial of the Dexcom Seven Plus and the Medtronic
> >Paradigm CGMS. I chose not to evaluate the Navigator because of its size. I
> >was asked to provide a report on my findings here when I was done, so here
> >goes:
> >
> >Comparing CGM systems
> >Before starting a trial, you need to ask yourself,
> >“What is the MOST CRITICAL assistance that YOU need from a system?â€
> >
> >For me, that was pretty easy. I have hypoglycemic
> >unawareness and, after finding myself behind the steering wheel on one of
> >Boston’s busiest highways during rush hour with a blood glucose level of
> >24 mg/dL, I knew I needed help. (Actually, I didn’t know I needed help
> >then â€" I had to raise my blood glucose level first.) My most dangerous
> >scenarios are when I am driving and when I am sleeping.
> >
> >My top 5 priorities fell like this:
> >1)
> >Accuracy, especially in low range
> >a.
> >I need to know that I am about to be unfit to drive
> >BEFORE I am unfit to drive. I need to be woken up and told that I am in danger
> >of hitting a low from which I will NOT wake up---BEFORE I get to that point.
> >2)
> >Consistent discernable warning when sugar falls below
> >50
> >a.
> >False alarms are better than missed alarms
> >b.
> >Easy to understand, even if I’m very low
> >c.
> >Ability to ignore future alarms, if it is stable or
> >trending upwards
> >d.
> >Warning for highs, but accuracy there is not as
> >important as it is for the lows
> >3)
> >Good use model for sleeping
> >a.
> >No loss of transmission while sleeping. Alarm if that
> >happens, but I don’t want extra wake-ups if it can be avoided.
> >b.
> >Alarm that will wake me
> >4)
> >Not too uncomfortable
> >a.
> >I don’t want to feel it day in and day out
> >b.
> >Low insertion pain (Okay, I’m a wimp and I like
> >to avoid pain whenever possible.)
> >5)
> >Durable and abuse-able
> >a.
> >Survives my school visit floor-diving, etc.
> >b.
> >Survives in basketball and winter ultimate
> >So, how did they do? They both did fairly well and
> >I’ll include additional categories in addition to MY top 5.
> >1) Accuracy, especially in low range: advantage
> >DEXCOM
> >Medtronic explained that the
> >technology measures the interstitial fluid glucose level, which lags the blood
> >glucose level. If that were the whole story, I would expect to see the 2
> >systems with the same delayed response. I did not see that. I’m not going
> >to deal with the difference in lag time, per se. As users, the time domain
> >needs to tell us trends, but that needs to be coupled with the key question,
> >“where am I at RIGHT NOW?†One could argue that this information
> >comes from a blood glucose measurement, while the trending information comes
> >from the CGMS. I would argue that it would be nice to get both pieces from 1
> >source and use the blood testing as the reality tether. That is exactly how I
> >plan to use my new DEXCOM system.
> >I am including data from my trial.
> >BE CAREFUL NOT TO INFER THAT THIS REPRESENTS HOW THE SYSTEMS WILL PERFORM IN YOUR >BODY. Everyone is different.
> >Data (all readings are mg/dL):
> >DexCom Medtronic Blood
> >test finger stick Time
> >46 92 63 5:17P
> >D1
> >51 78 46 6:30
> >166 118 171 8:00
> >61 84 71 10:27
> >173 142 192 5:15A
> >D2
> >151 131 157 8:00A (recal.
> >MM only)
> >51 76 32 4:40P
> >60 65 57 5:32P
> >224 165 221 9:12P (recal.
> >MM only)
> >63 104 40 10:29P
> >59 84 60 11:16P (recal.
> >MM only)
> >54 91 45 11:52P
> >80 85 62 12:40A
> >D3
> >47 77 44 6:14 (recal.
> >MM only)
> >86 74 77 10:07 (no
> >recalibration)
> >53 67 43 11:40
> >70 60 66 12:20 (no
> >recalibration)
> >97 75 84 2:25P
> >49 66 43 10:03P
> >117 115 109 7:49A
> >D4 (no recalibration)
> >51 75 52 8:35 (recal.
> >MM only)
> >68 69 50 10:20
> >59 81 64 12:20 (recal.
> >MM only)
> >52 68 52 12:40 (recal.
> >MM only)
> >42 57 49 1:22 (no
> >recalibration)
> >
> >2) Consistent discernable warning when sugar
> >falls below 50: advantage DEXCOM
> >Though both systems were set to
> >alarm when I hit 60 or below, I got low warnings from the Dexcom system before
> >the Medtronic EVERY SINGLE TIME. In fact, I got no warnings from the Minimed
> >system until after recalibrating a couple of times because it didn’t
> >think I had gone that low. Both systems were easy enough to understand. The
> >Dexcom system offered a simple adjustment of the “snooze†feature
> >(not bothering me for another half-hour or another 5 hours if my sugar is still
> >low).
> >
> >3)
> >Good use model
> >for sleeping: advantage
> >DEXCOM
> >I was able to lose transmission
> >with BOTH systems while in bed, pushing the transmitter into the mattress by laying
> >directly on it and, for Dexcom, putting the receiver between 2 pillows. Communication
> >problems seem to be plausible for both systems. The Dex automatically
> >reconnected as soon as it could. The Minimed would have wanted me to go through
> >a “find lost sensor†routine while I was sleeping.
> >Both alarms can wake me up, but I
> >found the Dexcom combination of sound with vibration to be the best solution.
> >
> >4) Not too uncomfortable: advantage
> >DEXCOM (daily), advantage Medtronic >(insertion)
> >This is definitely an individual
> >issue. You need to try this for yourself.
> >For me, the Minimed sensor started
> >itching the 2nd day it was in, and it was a very bothersome
> >annoyance until I took it out on day 4. The Dexcom sensor started itching on
> >day 8 but the itching was mild, recurring maybe once or twice in a day.
> >Minimed had the insertion advantage.
> >Insertion angle is critical for Minimed, but they have a spring-loaded
> >inserter. Dexcom expects you to push theirs in like a syringe. The Dexcom
> >sensor is a smaller gauge needle, making it less painful, but the Minimed
> >inserter makes things easier and reduces the pain.
> >
> >5) Durable and abuse-able: advantage
> >BOTH
> >Both systems were able to survive
> >my floor diving and basketball clumsiness. I was unable to play winter ultimate
> >during the trial to test that environment.
> >
> >6)
> >EASE OF USE: advantage DEXCOM
> >The ability to calibrate anytime,
> >stable or unstable, is a distinct advantage for Dex. Medtronic advises to
> >calibrate only when stable and that does help with their product, but the 7+
> >doesn’t care as much. I ran into calibration issues with both systems
> >(calibrating Medtronic while unstable and calibrating Dexcom with very high BG
> >and not recalibrating as I got lower).
> >Transmission loss: After 40 minutes
> >or so, Medtronic requires a “find lost sensor†routine. Dex simply
> >reconnects automatically and moves on.
> >Dex has no worries about ISIG
> >numbers or insertion angles or stability for initial calibrations.
> >
> >7)
> >Customer support:
> > advantage MEDTRONIC
> >Medtronic has a 24/7 help line,
> >staffed, for the most part, with people who really want to help. In late hours,
> >Dexcom has people on call. I tried this route and was unable to get a call back
> >before I had to leave my house. Live people were helpful and courteous.
> >
> >8)
> >EASE OF EVALUATION: advantage MEDTRONIC
> >The first thing I want to say is
> >that the Clinical Specialists who trained me on each of the systems were
> >WONDERFUL. Both were very knowledgeable, friendly, and accommodating.
> >Dexcom forced my doctor’s office into giving up a room (and they are very
> >short on space) and I had to drive there. Medronic made it easy and came right
> >to my house.
> >I did run into 2 bad DEXCOM sensors
> >to start off the evaluation period. This turned out to be a blessing in
> >disguise, as it forced me to evaluate the two systems head-to-head, or
> >stomach-to-stomach, as it were.
> >
> >The Medronic system had better transmission range. If you
> >are going to perform a trial with both systems, isolate them on different sides
> >of your body. I did find that the Dexcom receiver seemed to suffer from some
> >interference when placed too closely to the Minimed transmitter (sensor). On
> >opposite sides of the body, they each did fine.
> >The Dex transmitter has an internal “2 yearâ€
> >battery and does not have to be removed for recharging. The Dex receiver needs
> >to be recharged every few days. It does function while it is charging but its range
> >is reduced.
> >
> >The Medtronic system means less hardware to carry around,
> >but I find the accuracy difference worth the extra piece of hardware. One other
> >interesting note: my Medtronic pump can receive data from my blood tester. I
> >was told to turn this off when using their CGM (otherwise it would recalibrate
> >at every reading, which is non-optimal) whereas I can use this Medtronic
> >feature if I DON’T use their CGM. Had their engineers added an OPTION to
> >use the transmitted value for calibration (as they have done for the
> >hand-entered values), they would not have created an advantage for their
> >competition.
> >
> >Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and
> >trend. Neither system offered that to me, but even just a level-based alarm is
> >a huge life-saving leap over what I had before.
> >
> >So that’s the info from my eval. Now, I am going to
> >bed (with my Dex trial sensor still in â€" 12th day â€"
> >telling me that I am at a stable 91 mg/dL and my finger stick reading just 3 mg/dL
> >higher).
> >
> >Warm regards to all,
> >
> >-jeff toll-free:
> >1-888-967-3386
> >Award-Winning Children's Author, Jeff Nathan, presents
> >
> >CurricuLaughs
> >Curriculum-tied Language Arts Education through HUMOR
> >"... byfar, the best set of presentations I have seen in our school system
> >."
> > Dr. Marc Kerble Assistant
> >Superintendent Winchester Schools
> >Winchester, MA
> >"… a student said it best. "You Rock!" From the
> >mouth of babes, Jeff you were sensational. Thank you ever so much!"
> > Kristine O. Murray
> >Media Enrichment Specialist Maghakian Memorial School
> >Brookline, NH
> >
> > seethese and other raving
> >testimonials at www.IncredibleAssemblies.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
- 2d.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Ted Marshall" ted@lauramarshallphoto.com ted_a_marshall
Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:15 am (PST)
As a bonus, the Navigator has a much longer radio range. The equivalent of "lost sensor" errors just don't happen in bed.
/Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Jensen
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Jeff,
I understand the size issue is a barrier to many people with regard to the Navigator, but if trending information and alarms are so important to you it might be worth reconsidering.
Adam
- 2e.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "mommabagel@aol.com" mommabagel@aol.com mommabagel
Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:18 am (PST)
I have to agree !!!
Stacey
In a message dated 12/28/09 7:04:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
adam.jensen@gmail.com writes:
Jeff,
I understand the size issue is a barrier to many people with regard to the
Navigator, but if trending information and alarms are so important to you
it might be worth reconsidering.
Adam
- 2f.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "mommabagel@aol.com" mommabagel@aol.com mommabagel
Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:32 am (PST)
we've never had a lost sensor with the navigator
stacey
In a message dated 12/28/09 10:16:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ted@lauramarshallphoto.com writes:
As a bonus, the Navigator has a much longer radio range. The equivalent
of "lost sensor" errors just don't happen in bed.
/Ted
- 2g.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Ron Ziegler" ronnielee2u@yahoo.com ronnielee2u
Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:02 pm (PST)
Never lost one either.
Ron
MM722+CGMS Type 1 26 years
--- On Mon, 12/28/09, mommabagel@aol.com <mommabagel@aol.com > wrote:
From: mommabagel@aol.com <mommabagel@aol.com >
Subject: Re: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 10:32 AM
we've never had a lost sensor with the navigator
stacey
In a message dated 12/28/09 10:16:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ted@lauramarshallph oto.com writes:
As a bonus, the Navigator has a much longer radio range. The equivalent of "lost sensor" errors just don't happen in bed.
/Ted
- 2h.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Dave Guyer" daveg2@charter.net davegyr
Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:03 pm (PST)
Jeff, my Dex 7+ alarms at the high and low limit. It also alarms if the
rate of change is too great. Are you hoping for a system that varies
the rate of change threshold depending on how close to the high or low
limit you happen to be?
Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and trend. Neither
> system offered that to me, but even just a level-based alarm is a huge
> life-saving leap over what I had before.
>
- 2i.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author" jeff@incredibleassemblies.com chucklejeff
Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:19 pm (PST)
I guess that's 1 way to look at it, but I don't need something that complex.
I can get an alarm if my blood sugar is below a threshold OR if it is
falling rapidly. I want an alarm if I have crossed a threshold AND it is
falling rapidly.
In other words, if my threshold is 60 and I am maintaining a stable 55,
there's no need to wake me up. If it's 65 and sinking rapidly, that's more
of a cause for concern.
So, in Boolean terms, I'd like an AND function rather than the OR they have
given us.
Warm regards,
-jeff toll-free: 1-888-967-3386
Award-Winning Children's Author, Jeff Nathan, presents
CurricuLaughs
Curriculum-tied Language Arts Education through HUMOR
"... by far, the best set of presentations I have seen in our school system
."
Dr. Marc Kerble Assistant Superintendent Winchester Schools
Winchester, MA
". a student said it best. "You Rock!" From the mouth of babes, Jeff you
were sensational. Thank you ever so much!"
Kristine O. Murray Media Enrichment Specialist Maghakian Memorial
School Brookline, NH
see these and other raving testimonials at
<http://www.IncredibleAssemblies. > www.IncredibleAssemcom blies.com
From: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. [mailto:diabetescgms@com yahoogroups. ] Oncom
Behalf Of Dave Guyer
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:03 PM
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Jeff, my Dex 7+ alarms at the high and low limit. It also alarms if the
rate of change is too great. Are you hoping for a system that varies the
rate of change threshold depending on how close to the high or low limit you
happen to be?
Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author wrote:
<snip>
Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and trend. Neither system
offered that to me, but even just a level-based alarm is a huge life-saving
leap over what I had before.
- 2j.
-
If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
Posted by: "Pat Fields" ptfields@bellsouth.net ptfields@bellsouth.net
Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:24 pm (PST)
I just found out that my initial insurance request for a CGMS has been
canceled (for lack of information) after waiting for a decision for 2
months. I have no idea what information was missing, since the insurance
company didn't request any information from me or, to my knowledge, from my
endocrinologist.
I'm sure that my endocrinologist will resubmit the request for the CGMS, but
who knows what Tricare South will do with it this time. In the meantime, I
have found out that the only CGMS unit that Tricare South will pay for is
the Guardian from Medtronic. With my rapid blood sugar swings (dropping 100
to 150 points in an half hour is not unusual) and lows, I'm thinking that I
would be better served with the Dexcom or Navigator.
In case I end up being self-pay, can someone give me an idea what it is
going to cost me? Feel free to email me privately if you would prefer.
ptfields@bellsouth.net
Pat in SC, the lady with Nesidioblastosis
- 2k.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Dave Guyer" daveg2@charter.net davegyr
Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:47 pm (PST)
Thank you, Jeff. I program for a living, so this explanation makes a lot
of sense to me. Seems like it wouldn't be too much trouble to allow the
selection of AND or OR. I still like my idea that the further below the
low threshold I get, then the rate of drop that I'm worried about
becomes much less.
That is, if I'm 50, I personally don't want to see any drop. If I'm 70,
I won't panic over a slight drop. If I'm 300, I'm going to want to see a
whole bunch of drop! My Cozmo supplies that kind of functionality by
adding an additional percentage value of the bolus to the total bolus
over preset thresholds, but I'd rather be allowed a mathematical
equation to describe the curve.
Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author wrote:
>
> I�d like an AND function rather than the OR they have given us.
>
> <http://www.IncredibleAssemblies. >com
>
> *From:* diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:diabetescgms@yahoogroups. ] *On Behalf Of *Dave Guyercom
> *Sent:* Monday, December 28, 2009 9:03 PM
> *To:* diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
>
> Jeff, my Dex 7+ alarms at the high and low limit. It also alarms if
> the rate of change is too great. Are you hoping for a system that
> varies the rate of change threshold depending on how close to the high
> or low limit you happen to be?
>
> Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and trend.
> Neither system offered that to me, but even just a level-based
> alarm is a huge life-saving leap over what I had before.
>
>
> --------------------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2591 - Release Date: 12/28/09 19:32:00
>
>
- 2l.
-
Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
Posted by: "Allison Herschede" herschede@gmail.com majicmaid
Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:09 pm (PST)
I have Tricare Prime South as well. I use the Paradigm Realtime and have
been very happy with it thus far. Tricare also pays 100%. I don't know about
the other systems, but I do know the MM sensors are around $350 a month (for
a box of 10).
Allison
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Pat Fields <ptfields@bellsouth.net > wrote:
>
>
> I just found out that my initial insurance request for a CGMS has been
> canceled (for lack of information) after waiting for a decision for 2
> months. I have no idea what information was missing, since the insurance
> company didn't request any information from me or, to my knowledge, from my
> endocrinologist.
>
> I'm sure that my endocrinologist will resubmit the request for the CGMS,
> but who knows what Tricare South will do with it this time. In the meantime,
> I have found out that the only CGMS unit that Tricare South will pay for is
> the Guardian from Medtronic. With my rapid blood sugar swings (dropping 100
> to 150 points in an half hour is not unusual) and lows, I'm thinking that I
> would be better served with the Dexcom or Navigator.
>
> In case I end up being self-pay, can someone give me an idea what it is
> going to cost me? Feel free to email me privately if you would prefer.
>
> ptfields@bellsouth.net
>
> Pat in SC, the lady with Nesidioblastosis
>
>
>
- 2m.
-
Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
Posted by: "Ted Marshall" ted@lauramarshallphoto.com ted_a_marshall
Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:05 pm (PST)
For the Navigator, the prices vary depending on which distributor you buy from. When I started the process and told Abbott I was going to have to self-pay, they gave me a list of distributors to call! The prices I was quoted varied by 2x!!!
The best price I found for the system (no sensors) was $1000 (this was about 9 months ago). I'm getting a six-pack of sensors for between $360 and $390 (the price seems to vary randomly from my supplier). This is a month's supply per the recommended 5-days per sensor but a pack lasts me between 2 and 3 months.
Be sure to tell Abbott that you need a supplier for self-pay and make sure to ask for self-pay pricing from the distributors! If it's going through insurance, they all jack up the prices!
/Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Fields
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: [diabetescgms] If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
I just found out that my initial insurance request for a CGMS has been canceled (for lack of information) after waiting for a decision for 2 months. I have no idea what information was missing, since the insurance company didn't request any information from me or, to my knowledge, from my endocrinologist.
I'm sure that my endocrinologist will resubmit the request for the CGMS, but who knows what Tricare South will do with it this time. In the meantime, I have found out that the only CGMS unit that Tricare South will pay for is the Guardian from Medtronic. With my rapid blood sugar swings (dropping 100 to 150 points in an half hour is not unusual) and lows, I'm thinking that I would be better served with the Dexcom or Navigator.
In case I end up being self-pay, can someone give me an idea what it is going to cost me? Feel free to email me privately if you would prefer.
ptfields@bellsouth.net
Pat in SC, the lady with Nesidioblastosis
- 2n.
-
Re: If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
Posted by: "Ron Ziegler" ronnielee2u@yahoo.com ronnielee2u
Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:25 pm (PST)
As a side note; I was shocked and amazed to find the MM sensors being sold on ebay (with their permission) and have seen a box of 10 sell for less than $100. Expirations of said sensors were 2010. Something to think about perhaps.
Ron
MM722+CGMS Type 1 26 years
--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Allison Herschede <herschede@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Allison Herschede <herschede@gmail.com >
Subject: Re: [diabetescgms] If I end up self pay, what is it going to cost me...
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 10:09 PM
I have Tricare Prime South as well. I use the Paradigm Realtime and have been very happy with it thus far. Tricare also pays 100%. I don't know about the other systems, but I do know the MM sensors are around $350 a month (for a box of 10).
Allison
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Pat Fields <ptfields@bellsouth. net> wrote:
I just found out that my initial insurance request for a CGMS has been canceled (for lack of information) after waiting for a decision for 2 months. I have no idea what information was missing, since the insurance company didn't request any information from me or, to my knowledge, from my endocrinologist.
I'm sure that my endocrinologist will resubmit the request for the CGMS, but who knows what Tricare South will do with it this time. In the meantime, I have found out that the only CGMS unit that Tricare South will pay for is the Guardian from Medtronic. With my rapid blood sugar swings (dropping 100 to 150 points in an half hour is not unusual) and lows, I'm thinking that I would be better served with the Dexcom or Navigator.
In case I end up being self-pay, can someone give me an idea what it is going to cost me? Feel free to email me privately if you would prefer.
ptfields@bellsouth. net
Pat in SC, the lady with Nesidioblastosis
- 2o.
-
Re: My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
Posted by: "Jamie Weisbrod" weisbrod@yahoo.com weisbrod
Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:40 pm (PST)
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for providing a comparison of the systems.
I would like to comment on the comfort factor. I think this might be an individual issue.
The MM insertion needle is significantly larger than the the Dexcom. I have a MM pump so it would have been anadvantage for me to use MM. When the MM diabetes educator helped me with the first insertion, I bleed profusely,
I was unable to wear it for even a day. I am a brand new Dexcom user, the initial insertion was successful and I have been wearing
the sensor for 10 days. I have cut tags out of my clothes because they bother me so this means a lot to me.
Regards,
Kimi
>
>From: "Jeff Nathan, Award-Winning Author" <jeff@incredibleasse mblies.com>
>To: diabetescgms@ yahoogroups. com
>Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 12:20:39 AM
>Subject: [diabetescgms] My trial of Medtronic and Dexcom CGM Systems
>
>
>
>
>I just completed a trial of the Dexcom Seven Plus and the Medtronic Paradigm CGMS. I chose not to evaluate the Navigator because of its size. I was asked to provide a report on my findings here when I was done, so here goes:
>
>Comparing CGM systems
>Before starting a trial, you need to ask yourself, "What is the MOST CRITICAL assistance that YOU need from a system?"
>
>For me, that was pretty easy. I have hypoglycemic unawareness and, after finding myself behind the steering wheel on one of Boston's busiest highways during rush hour with a blood glucose level of 24 mg/dL, I knew I needed help. (Actually, I didn't know I needed help then – I had to raise my blood glucose level first.) My most dangerous scenarios are when I am driving and when I am sleeping.
>
>My top 5 priorities fell like this:
>1) Accuracy, especially in low range
>a. I need to know that I am about to be unfit to drive BEFORE I am unfit to drive. I need to be woken up and told that I am in danger of hitting a low from which I will NOT wake up---BEFORE I get to that point.
>2) Consistent discernable warning when sugar falls below 50
>a. False alarms are better than missed alarms
>b. Easy to understand, even if I'm very low
>c. Ability to ignore future alarms, if it is stable or trending upwards
>d. Warning for highs, but accuracy there is not as important as it is for the lows
>3) Good use model for sleeping
>a. No loss of transmission while sleeping. Alarm if that happens, but I don't want extra wake-ups if it can be avoided.
>b. Alarm that will wake me
>4) Not too uncomfortable
>a. I don't want to feel it day in and day out
>b. Low insertion pain (Okay, I'm a wimp and I like to avoid pain whenever possible.)
>5) Durable and abuse-able
>a. Survives my school visit floor-diving, etc.
>b. Survives in basketball and winter ultimate
>So, how did they do? They both did fairly well and I'll include additional categories in addition to MY top 5.
>1) Accuracy, especially in low range: advantage DEXCOM
>Medtronic explained that the technology measures the interstitial fluid glucose level, which lags the blood glucose level. If that were the whole story, I would expect to see the 2 systems with the same delayed response. I did not see that. I'm not going to deal with the difference in lag time, per se. As users, the time domain needs to tell us trends, but that needs to be coupled with the key question, "where am I at RIGHT NOW?" One could argue that this information comes from a blood glucose measurement, while the trending information comes from the CGMS. I would argue that it would be nice to get both pieces from 1 source and use the blood testing as the reality tether. That is exactly how I plan to use my new DEXCOM system.
>I am including data from my trial. BE CAREFUL NOT TO INFER THAT THIS REPRESENTS HOW THE SYSTEMS WILL PERFORM IN YOUR BODY. Everyone is different.
>Data (all readings are mg/dL):
>DexCom Medtronic Blood test finger stick Time
>46 92 63 5:17P D1
>51 78 46 6:30
>166 118 171 8:00
>61 84 71 10:27
>173 142 192 5:15A D2
>151 131 157 8:00A (recal. MM only)
>51 76 32 4:40P
>60 65 57 5:32P
>224 165 221 9:12P (recal. MM only)
>63 104 40 10:29P
>59 84 60 11:16P (recal. MM only)
>54 91 45 11:52P
>80 85 62 12:40A D3
>47 77 44 6:14 (recal. MM only)
>86 74 77 10:07 (no recalibration)
>53 67 43 11:40
>70 60 66 12:20 (no recalibration)
>97 75 84 2:25P
>49 66 43 10:03P
>117 115 109 7:49A D4 (no recalibration)
>51 75 52 8:35 (recal. MM only)
>68 69 50 10:20
>59 81 64 12:20 (recal. MM only)
>52 68 52 12:40 (recal. MM only)
>42 57 49 1:22 (no recalibration)
>
>2) Consistent discernable warning when sugar falls below 50: advantage DEXCOM
>Though both systems were set to alarm when I hit 60 or below, I got low warnings from the Dexcom system before the Medtronic EVERY SINGLE TIME. In fact, I got no warnings from the Minimed system until after recalibrating a couple of times because it didn't think I had gone that low. Both systems were easy enough to understand. The Dexcom system offered a simple adjustment of the "snooze" feature (not bothering me for another half-hour or another 5 hours if my sugar is still low).
>
>3) Good use model for sleeping: advantage DEXCOM
>I was able to lose transmission with BOTH systems while in bed, pushing the transmitter into the mattress by laying directly on it and, for Dexcom, putting the receiver between 2 pillows. Communication problems seem to be plausible for both systems. The Dex automatically reconnected as soon as it could. The Minimed would have wanted me to go through a "find lost sensor" routine while I was sleeping.
>Both alarms can wake me up, but I found the Dexcom combination of sound with vibration to be the best solution.
>
>4) Not too uncomfortable: advantage DEXCOM (daily), advantage Medtronic (insertion)
>This is definitely an individual issue. You need to try this for yourself.
>For me, the Minimed sensor started itching the 2nd day it was in, and it was a very bothersome annoyance until I took it out on day 4. The Dexcom sensor started itching on day 8 but the itching was mild, recurring maybe once or twice in a day.
>Minimed had the insertion advantage. Insertion angle is critical for Minimed, but they have a spring-loaded inserter. Dexcom expects you to push theirs in like a syringe. The Dexcom sensor is a smaller gauge needle, making it less painful, but the Minimed inserter makes things easier and reduces the pain.
>
>5) Durable and abuse-able: advantage BOTH
>Both systems were able to survive my floor diving and basketball clumsiness. I was unable to play winter ultimate during the trial to test that environment.
>
>6) EASE OF USE: advantage DEXCOM
>The ability to calibrate anytime, stable or unstable, is a distinct advantage for Dex. Medtronic advises to calibrate only when stable and that does help with their product, but the 7+ doesn't care as much. I ran into calibration issues with both systems (calibrating Medtronic while unstable and calibrating Dexcom with very high BG and not recalibrating as I got lower).
>Transmission loss: After 40 minutes or so, Medtronic requires a "find lost sensor" routine. Dex simply reconnects automatically and moves on.
>Dex has no worries about ISIG numbers or insertion angles or stability for initial calibrations.
>
>7) Customer support: advantage MEDTRONIC
>Medtronic has a 24/7 help line, staffed, for the most part, with people who really want to help. In late hours, Dexcom has people on call. I tried this route and was unable to get a call back before I had to leave my house. Live people were helpful and courteous.
>
>8) EASE OF EVALUATION: advantage MEDTRONIC
>The first thing I want to say is that the Clinical Specialists who trained me on each of the systems were WONDERFUL. Both were very knowledgeable, friendly, and accommodating. Dexcom forced my doctor's office into giving up a room (and they are very short on space) and I had to drive there. Medronic made it easy and came right to my house.
>I did run into 2 bad DEXCOM sensors to start off the evaluation period. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it forced me to evaluate the two systems head-to-head, or stomach-to-stomach, as it were.
>
>The Medronic system had better transmission range. If you are going to perform a trial with both systems, isolate them on different sides of your body. I did find that the Dexcom receiver seemed to suffer from some interference when placed too closely to the Minimed transmitter (sensor). On opposite sides of the body, they each did fine.
>The Dex transmitter has an internal "2 year" battery and does not have to be removed for recharging. The Dex receiver needs to be recharged every few days. It does function while it is charging but its range is reduced.
>
>The Medtronic system means less hardware to carry around, but I find the accuracy difference worth the extra piece of hardware. One other interesting note: my Medtronic pump can receive data from my blood tester. I was told to turn this off when using their CGM (otherwise it would recalibrate at every reading, which is non-optimal) whereas I can use this Medtronic feature if I DON'T use their CGM. Had their engineers added an OPTION to use the transmitted value for calibration (as they have done for the hand-entered values), they would not have created an advantage for their competition.
>
>Ideally, I would want an alarm that combines level and trend. Neither system offered that to me, but even just a level-based alarm is a huge life-saving leap over what I had before.
>
>So that's the info from my eval. Now, I am going to bed (with my Dex trial sensor still in – 12th day – telling me that I am at a stable 91 mg/dL and my finger stick reading just 3 mg/dL higher).
>
>Warm regards to all,
>
>-jeff toll-free: 1-888-967-3386
>Award-Winning Children's Author, Jeff Nathan, presents
> CurricuLaughs
>Curriculum-tied Language Arts Education through HUMOR
>"... byfar, the best set of presentations I have seen in our school system ."
> Dr. Marc Kerble Assistant Superintendent Winchester Schools Winchester, MA
>"… a student said it best. "You Rock!" From the mouth of babes, Jeff you were sensational. Thank you ever so much!"
> Kristine O. Murray Media Enrichment Specialist Maghakian Memorial School Brookline, NH
>
> seethese and other raving testimonials at www.IncredibleAssem blies.com
>
>
>
- 3a.
-
restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "Adam Jensen" adam.jensen@gmail.com adamixoye
Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:16 am (PST)
Reading some of the e-mails on Dexcom/Minimed, it occurs to me that people
on this list don't really talk about "dead" Navigator sensors in the same
way. Judging by that fact it seems there are fewer bad Navigator sensors,
which I suppose is a plus for the Navigator (I'm not trying to evangelize
for it).
More to the point of this post, I can't remember anyone talking about
starting a new Navigator cycle in order to revive a sensor. I, for one,
have never done it. I'm sure the extra long startup time is a hindrance.
For me, the other issue is that I've never had a sensor error in the first
5-day cycle that I can remember; if I did, it came back to life on its own
and I didn't chuck the sensor. I get sensor errors starting in the second
cycle (but not always), and they are a little irregular. I've had sensors
give me on/off errors for hours, then start working again perfectly and
remain working for days.
Thoughts/comments?
Adam
- 3b.
-
Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "diana linehan" dmslof@yahoo.com dmslof
Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:08 am (PST)
I generally agree with your assessment. In the whole time we used the Navigator on my son (9 months), I can't remember having a bad sensor or a sensor failure. There were probably a few, but nothing comes to mind. Sensor issues on the Dexcom are not at all uncommon for us.
We had many issues with the Navigator - but sensor quality was never one of them. We always got 9-10 days out of a sensor. The sensor was going to work, and it was going to be accurate.
--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Adam Jensen <adam.jensen@gmail.com > wrote:
From: Adam Jensen <adam.jensen@gmail.com >
Subject: [diabetescgms] restarting failed Navigator sensors
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 4:16 AM
Reading some of the e-mails on Dexcom/Minimed, it occurs to me that people on this list don't really talk about "dead" Navigator sensors in the same way. Judging by that fact it seems there are fewer bad Navigator sensors, which I suppose is a plus for the Navigator (I'm not trying to evangelize for it).
More to the point of this post, I can't remember anyone talking about starting a new Navigator cycle in order to revive a sensor. I, for one, have never done it. I'm sure the extra long startup time is a hindrance. For me, the other issue is that I've never had a sensor error in the first 5-day cycle that I can remember; if I did, it came back to life on its own and I didn't chuck the sensor. I get sensor errors starting in the second cycle (but not always), and they are a little irregular. I've had sensors give me on/off errors for hours, then start working again perfectly and remain working for days.
Thoughts/comments?
Adam
- 3c.
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Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "Lizabeth" lizabeth22@charter.net tlizabeth
Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:53 am (PST)
My daughter has been on a Navigator for over a year now. We have never had a sensor malfunction. We have needed the receiver replaced twice for screen problems but that is it. We do occasionally get sensor error alarms but minutes later it is working fine. Those we get on occasion when she is fluctuating and on the rise fast.
It is always dead on with the exceptions of huge highs and some lag time on lows.
We always do a restart and get 10 days out of a sensor too.
Don't know about the new Dex but we were on the second generation for about a year and had to replace many many sensors. On a small child it's a PITA!
Lizabeth (Wife to Pat 11yrs ~ Too many irons in the fire)
Mom to McKenzie (8) DX 2/2005
Pumping 8/2005 Animas 2020 - Nav. 11/08
Parker (7) All Boy!!
Shawano, Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Jensen
To: diabetescgms@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:16 AM
Subject: [diabetescgms] restarting failed Navigator sensors
Reading some of the e-mails on Dexcom/Minimed, it occurs to me that people on this list don't really talk about "dead" Navigator sensors in the same way. Judging by that fact it seems there are fewer bad Navigator sensors, which I suppose is a plus for the Navigator (I'm not trying to evangelize for it).
More to the point of this post, I can't remember anyone talking about starting a new Navigator cycle in order to revive a sensor. I, for one, have never done it. I'm sure the extra long startup time is a hindrance. For me, the other issue is that I've never had a sensor error in the first 5-day cycle that I can remember; if I did, it came back to life on its own and I didn't chuck the sensor. I get sensor errors starting in the second cycle (but not always), and they are a little irregular. I've had sensors give me on/off errors for hours, then start working again perfectly and remain working for days.
Thoughts/comments?
Adam
- 3d.
-
Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "Adam Jensen" adam.jensen@gmail.com adamixoye
Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:09 pm (PST)
Well, now I'm a little surprised the other way (i.e. that people say they
NEVER get a dead sensor). If I remember correctly, there are basically two
error messages you can get: "Sensor Error Alarms Inactive" and "Sensor
Error Replace Sensor." I actually don't pay a TON of attention to this, so
I could be wrong, but this is what I thought was the case. I have very
rarely gotten the second error (assuming I've ever had it happen at all),
but one way or another, I've had sensors stop working for long enough that I
assume they're dead.
But my point is that this never (that I can remember) happens in the first
5-day cycle and only rarely has happened in the second 5-cycle. I average
10-15 days per sensor (hard to give a more precise average); my low is 5 and
my high was 25.
And further my point is that I'm surprised that for all the point-by-point
comparisons of MM/Dex/Nav, this is hardly ever mentioned. Seems worthwhile.
Adam
- 3e.
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Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "dmslof@yahoo.com" dmslof@yahoo.com dmslof
Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:35 pm (PST)
Well, we would get those sensor errors at the end of the 2nd 5-day cycle which was an indicator the sensor was dying. I don't consider that a sensor failure though - not after getting 9-10 days of good numbers.
By comparison, we have had Dexcom sensors fail in the first few days many, many times. If it fails after 7 days, I don't consider it a sensor failure.
Dexcom has replaced more sensors for us than I can even count. When my son was on the Navigator, I don't think we ever had a sensor replaced for an actual sensor issue. We had plenty replaced for other hardwear issues that ended the sensor life prematurely.
I agree that this seems to be an advantage that Navigator has that should be mentioned more frequently.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Jensen <adam.jensen@gmail.com >
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:09:28
To: <diabetescgms@yahoogroups. >com
Subject: Re: [diabetescgms] restarting failed Navigator sensors
Well, now I'm a little surprised the other way (i.e. that people say they
NEVER get a dead sensor). If I remember correctly, there are basically two
error messages you can get: "Sensor Error Alarms Inactive" and "Sensor
Error Replace Sensor." I actually don't pay a TON of attention to this, so
I could be wrong, but this is what I thought was the case. I have very
rarely gotten the second error (assuming I've ever had it happen at all),
but one way or another, I've had sensors stop working for long enough that I
assume they're dead.
But my point is that this never (that I can remember) happens in the first
5-day cycle and only rarely has happened in the second 5-cycle. I average
10-15 days per sensor (hard to give a more precise average); my low is 5 and
my high was 25.
And further my point is that I'm surprised that for all the point-by-point
comparisons of MM/Dex/Nav, this is hardly ever mentioned. Seems worthwhile.
Adam
- 3f.
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Re: restarting failed Navigator sensors
Posted by: "Alissa Levenberg" alissa@ufp.com evlhrb4
Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:34 pm (PST)
Our experience has been the same. Never a problem during the first
five days, occasionally have to start a new one during the second go
round. After using Navigator for the past year and a half, I am
extremely pleased with it. I need it to be reliable and accurate and
it is always just that. We may have to switch to Kaiser in the next
year and
my biggest concern is that even if they do cover cgms, they don't
cover Navigator. I'm very worried about how far short the other
systems will fall given how much I have come to depend on this
technology.
Alissa
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 28, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Adam Jensen <adam.jensen@gmail.com > wrote:
> Well, now I'm a little surprised the other way (i.e. that people say
> they NEVER get a dead sensor). If I remember correctly, there are
> basically two error messages you can get: "Sensor Error Alarms
> Inactive" and "Sensor Error Replace Sensor." I actually don't pay a
> TON of attention to this, so I could be wrong, but this is what I
> thought was the case. I have very rarely gotten the second error
> (assuming I've ever had it happen at all), but one way or another,
> I've had sensors stop working for long enough that I assume they're
> dead.
>
> But my point is that this never (that I can remember) happens in the
> first 5-day cycle and only rarely has happened in the second 5-
> cycle. I average 10-15 days per sensor (hard to give a more precise
> average); my low is 5 and my high was 25.
>
> And further my point is that I'm surprised that for all the point-by-
> point comparisons of MM/Dex/Nav, this is hardly ever mentioned.
> Seems worthwhile.
>
> Adam
>
- 4a.
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Re: what size hyperfix to order
Posted by: "mommabagel@aol.com" mommabagel@aol.com mommabagel
Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:11 am (PST)
I have the 4 inch OpSite flexifix... then someone gave me a roll of the
2 inch. The 4 inch is definitely easier to use.. It has to do with peeling
away the back paper.... It may be expensive but really lasts a long time
. We have the roll for a year and a half, and its maybe 1/2 way used up..
Stacey.
In a message dated 12/27/09 10:15:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ronnielee2u@yahoo.com writes:
At this time, I use OpSite Flexifix, and the 4" is my preference. If I
would want it smaller, all I have to do is cut to size. Couldn't do that if I
had the 2".
When using Hyperfix, the same applied for me. 4" worked best for me, but
when I needed smaller
I just cut to fit my need at that time.
This way it gives me the freedom to go either way. Since most times I want
the 4", I don't have to cut to size very much. But I do use it sometimes
for my infusion sets too and smaller then works best.
Good luck and best health in 2010...for everyone:)
--- On Sun, 12/27/09, Wendy B. <billingsley.billingsley. bil> wrote:
From: Wendy B. <billingsley.billingsley. bil>
Subject: [diabetescgms] what size hyperfix to order
To: diabetescgms@To: To:
- 5.
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Ping/Dexcom combo
Posted by: "Bonnie" bonnieandrachel@gmail.com bonnieandrachel
Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:00 pm (PST)
Does anybody know if the Animas Ping/Dexcom combo will still have the 5
foot range? That was always a major negative factor for us when we used the
Dexcom Seven. Also, does anybody know when it is "supposed" to be coming
out? I know that it is all FDA related - but hopefully they have a goal
:-)
Our warranty on the Navigator was up this past August 09 and the Cozmo
warranty is up Jan 11, so we are leaning towards the Ping/Dex combo - but I
really don't like the 5 ft range issue.
Thank you.
--
Bonnie S.
mom to Rachel, type 1 2/02, celiac 2/04, Cozmo, Navigator, Apidra (1 bottle
trial - not noticing any dosing differences so far)
--
Bonnie S.
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