Messages In This Digest (9 Messages)
- 1.
- Another interesting NYT article From: Debbie Drechsler
- 2.1.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 2.2.
- Re: weight loss, but for how long? From: Diane Moro
- 3.1.
- Re: Byetta, Symlin, Lasix From: AnaLog Services, Inc.
- 4a.
- Re: why no insulin for type 2s From: Kristy Sokoloski
- 4b.
- Re: why no insulin for type 2s From: Jude
- 5a.
- Re: diabetics and weight loss From: Jude
- 6a.
- Re: diabetes causes obesity From: Jude
- 7.1.
- Re: Close to OT? "Boundaries" From: Diane Moro
Messages
- 1.
-
Another interesting NYT article
Posted by: "Debbie Drechsler" deb@debdrex.com debsudrex
Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:13 pm (PST)
While searching for the Gary Taubes article, What If It's All Been A
Big Fat Lie? I stumbled across a more recent one (2007) called The
Scientist And the Stairmaster raising the question of whether exercise
makes us lose weight and talking about the role insulin plays in
weight gain and loss.
http://nymag.com/news/ sports/38001/
Debbie in Santa Rosa
- 2.1.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:14 pm (PST)
First, let me correct you. You have remarkable insight on a wide range of topics.
But you're faith in psychologists, psychiatrists, and mental health therapists is misplaced. They are a waste of time, and studies clearly show that. They got a tremendous boost from the apparent success of the 'talking cure" during WWII, but in the real world they cure nobody, just create an artificial need for their services. In the final analysis, mind therapy can be summarized with the old saw that a paid friend is better than no friend at all. But folks on this list have you and the many other kind souls here to help reinforce good behavior, and do not need that paid friend. I will qualify the above with the caveat that I am not talking about the severely mentally ill, but us run of the mill sociopaths do not need these quacks.
On the Byetta. I tolerated it well after a little initial nausea, In fact, I experienced a sense of well-being and actually experienced a little body rush (hippie talk for those of you not old enough to remember) from the injections. Byetta is a little different than Symlin as I understand it. Symlin is the actual hormone missing or in short supply in Type 2s, whereas Byetta is a synthetic mimetic originally isolated in Heloderma suspectum (gihla monster) venom (hence the knick name "lizard spit" among the user community). Perhaps the Symlin would work better for you. I believe Byetta for use with insulin is off-label, but then you are still on Metformin iirc. Anyway, I look forward to starting Symlin. I delayed it because I was just too sick to play with altering yet another med, and I was just getting my insulin dose figured out too.
Syd
----- Original Message -----
From: Jude
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] Re: weight loss, but for how long?
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "AnaLog Services, Inc." <analog@...> wrote: Now that I am on insulin only, I will start Symlin soon>>com
Please let us know how you do on Symlin, Syd. I took Byetta last year, and (I don't believe) was ever so sick in my whole sorry life. No wonder people lose weight on that spawn of the devil; turning green at the sight of food, gagging and throwing up (or wishing you could) will do that to a person. I hope and pray your experience is waaaaaaaay better than mine was! If you took Byetta at the 10mcg dose and did okay, Symlin hopefully won't make you sick either.
> You do not need therapy for being normal. Please put that notion that you need to get to the bottom of it out of your head>>
C'mon, Syd. Some folks just want to know how they're wired and then how to work within the wiring framework they've been given. Just 'cause you think it's a waste of time, doesn't mean it is for everyone; she won't know till she tries. *and OMG, now I'm talking over Diane's head, as though SHE isn't in the room! <G>*
<<Normal humans enjoy eating. Diabetic humans just have to figure out ways to not eat certain things. Some in here think that have it all figured out, but listen to Jude if you want the real voice of experience>>
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but believe me, although I've been there, done that, didn't get the T shirt (they never come in size 5X), AND love to talk about it, I certainly have no big insight about any damned thing.
Judy D.
- 2.2.
-
Re: weight loss, but for how long?
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:48 am (PST)
JoAnne, you are absolutely right. I come from a long line of women who lived
to serve man, I was talking to my mom yesterday to wish her a Merry
Christmas (I live in NY, my parents live in Italy) and when I broached the
subject of taking care of me, she said you gotta watch out for you man, you
know how they are, they don't take care of themselves and if he goes down he
will drag you down with him. When I tried to tell her that I do as much as I
can but I don't want to neglect myself she just said you have to make room
for both, it's the wife's burden.
So there you have it, this is what I internalized. To this day at 84 my
father acts like a helpless baby.
I need to get the point where I can say with a clear conscience, OK, I'm
going to leave you on your own now, gotta do something for me. So far, this
approach has been guilt laden for me. So if I do it, the guilt I feel ruins
it for me. That can't be good.
~diane
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, jm04161955 <jm04161955@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>
> --- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Diane Moro <deemoro@...com > wrote:
>
>
> Forgive me for stepping in and possibly crossing a lien I shouldn't, but is
> there some reason why your husband can't "get his own dinner"? Even if he's
> not a fantastic cook and can only make simple foods, it takes no more than a
> few minutes to thorw some boneless chicken breasts into a skillet with some
> oil, salt and pepper, and you can chop and steam a head of broccoli nearly
> as quickly. Or keep some grilled chicken or ham in the fridge, and buy some
> romaine lettuce or a variety of drak greens and tomatoes, and in a few
> minutes, you'e got a salad with adequate protein that can be a meal on its
> own. Or is it the mindset that the woman must make the meals?
>
- 3.1.
-
Re: Byetta, Symlin, Lasix
Posted by: "AnaLog Services, Inc." analog@logwell.com sydlevine
Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:18 pm (PST)
In an odd paradox, it brought back decent kidney function. I was in acute renal failure, and the lasix was used gingerly. I am now on 40 mg of Torsemide daily, and other than needing a bathroom nearby for a few hours every day, it is wonderful stuff. It has completely stopped the sleep apnea, though my doc seemed surprised at that beneficial side effect. The sig other claims I do not snore at all anymore, and in fact she worried I had quit breathing when she noticed the quiet sound sleeping. Her snoring could wake the dead, btw.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jude
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:28 PM
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] Byetta, Symlin, Lasix
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "AnaLog Services, Inc." <analog@...> wrote: Jude, you are wonderful! Have you thought about Symlin? I was on Byetta and lost 50 pounds on that. I start Symlin in the next few days (I have been putting it off while I got this uric acid thing and a few other meds sorted out)>>com
Yes, as per my previous post,I did take Byetta. It's considered off-label prescribing to give Byetta to those who take insulin, but Symlin has been approved for that use. I have no earthly idea why my endo prescribed Byetta (the aforementioned spawn of the devil) to me instead of Symlin. Last time we talked, she said she'd try a trial of Symlin with me if I wanted, but I think I turned green in reaction to her suggestion, and she backed off... I can't face the idea of going back to that flu-like illness it gave me. In fact, I get a funny gaggy feeling in the back of my throat just thinking about it.
> Incidentally, I lost 60 pounds in about a week on IV Lasix while in the hospital. I don't recommend that route, however>>
Wow. You were really bloated. That Lasix does the trick all right-- great drug, when you need it. But your poor kidneys! *ouch*
Judy D.
- 4a.
-
Re: why no insulin for type 2s
Posted by: "Kristy Sokoloski" sokokl@yahoo.com sokokl
Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:44 pm (PST)
Even if there were enough CDEs (which should not be the ones teaching about how to use insulin if a patient needs it, only a doctor and their nurse can do that) available not everyone will be able to have access to them because of their location, or the money to do it even if there was enough reimbursement on the part for the necessary teaching and follow-up.
Some insurance plans if they cover it may only allow for one class (I think someone on the list mentioned that they had a plan like this) per year or something to that extent and that's it. Some insurance plans allow for 4 weeks of education. My insurance plan increased the number of times for a class to 6 for the upcoming year.
As for why full grown adults can't be taught, another reason is that there are some that don't want to learn. If they don't want to learn that is their personal choice. No one can make them do something if they don't want to do it. Sure the doctors and such can try to use the scary stories to make the person take this seriously, but there are still going to be those that just don't want to do it and those are the ones that are going to learn the hard way if they learn the lesson at all.
That's why I said before even though my mom has made some changes to caring for herself that I said I hope those changes have not come too late. Thankfully the tests from the cardiovascular surgeon came back ok too. He is not going to do anything else even in spite of the concern from the Podiatrist for which is why she was sent as the Podiatrist was concerned about her right foot. He told her that she does not have to come back for another year unless she starts to notice pain in that area or gets a sore on her foot, then they will deal with it later. We'll see what the Podiatrist says about this when she goes back in to see him on the 5th as to how he's going to take the results of these tests that were done and also the note with it.
Daughter of Type 2 Insulin Dependent Diabetic,
Kristy :)
- 4b.
-
Re: why no insulin for type 2s
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:48 am (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Kristy Sokoloski <sokokl@...> wrote: Even if there were enough CDEs (which should not be the ones teaching about how to use insulin if a patient needs it, only a doctor and their nurse can do that)>>com
No doctor has enough time or expertise or available financial reimbursement to teach a patient a skill set like insulin use, IMO. Or interest, for that matter. Sure, an RN probably could show someone how to give an injection-- how to draw up the med and get it inside themselves, how to clean up before and after, etc. But only a CDE, especially an RN or LPN or PA or NP CDE, has the specialized training needed to educate and follow up. After all, that's why their specialty exists.
<<available not everyone will be able to have access to them because of their location, or the money to do it even if there was enough reimbursement on the part for the necessary teaching and follow-up>>
Right, I agree. It takes resources of location, time and money to get good teaching about safe, effective insulin therapy.
> As for why full grown adults can't be taught, another reason is that there are some that don't want to learn>>
But that's no excuse for not even offering someone the opportunity. No one should decide in advance that any individual or group of individuals is unmotivated or too stupid or too far gone or too poor and/or disadvanted to learn. IMO, the patient should be offered the best solution to their problem first, and only when he proves incapable, for whatever reason, should therapy be dumbed down.
Thanks for letting us know that your mom is doing pretty well, Kristy. It really is a day by day thing we all have to live with. And IMO, as long as we're each still above ground, it's never too late.
Judy D.
- 5a.
-
Re: diabetics and weight loss
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:18 am (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , "ceyanne2003" <ceyanne2003@com ...> wrote: I have bee dx for 3 years now I also weigh more now than I have in 47 years . I take metformin 500mg once a day and 5mg glipizude 5 2 times a day I am still gaining weigh and can not lose a pound of it any suggestions>
Eat less overall. Weigh and measure your portions until you see for sure what a normal portion looks like. Write down what you eat, and be ruthlessly honest about it. When you want two of something, eat one. When you want 8 ounces, drink 4 (unless it's a freebie).
When you get the urge to indulge, drink a big glass of cold non-caloric beverage instead of having a snack. In 20 minutes, see if you're still hungry-- I'll bet you won't be. Many times when we think we need to eat, our bodies are actually just dehydrated.
If a food has refined sugar or high fructose corn syrup in it or is made with white flour, don't let it pass your lips. Get re-acquainted with fruit and veggies (red! orange! green! yellow!) and skim milk and plain water.
Do some activity-exercise-movement every single day for at least a half hour, and do your level best to be glad to be able to do it.
Keep smiling. Sing, dance, make music in your soul. Make a joyful noise. Take time to smell the roses (real as well as metaphoric)_-- they smell as lovely for us fat folks as they do for the skinnies, and the smelling is free.
Yep. I think that's about it for now.
Judy D.
- 6a.
-
Re: diabetes causes obesity
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:40 am (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Eric Geffner <drgeff@...> wrote: <snip> for years I had undiagnosed diabetes because the fasting test was being used and not the a1c. I overate BECAUSE of the diabetes. Who else would be CRAVING sugar when the meter read 575?I had to buy one myself after three doctors told me I was not diabetic because by fasting number was 100-110>com
IMO you were medically mismanaged in the extreme. Anyone presenting with pre-diabetic numbers should also be given an A1c test, period. IMO, anyone at high risk for type two (family history, middle aged and older, overweight, sedentary for most of us) should also have an A1c ordered, regardless of the fasting glucose... you know, not that anyone asked me, I'm just sayin'.
You craved high calorie foods when your glucose was super-elevated because all your body's cells were literally starving, dying on the vine for lack of nourishment, Eric. It makes perfect sense to me that someone with 250+ on the meter, temporarily or chronically, would have actual physical hunger pains and deep cravings.
When the cells go hungry, they send out the "feed me, and do it now" signals-- without enough insulin to access some of that circulating glucose, they're, as I say, dying. Calling for food is just their effort to keep that person's sorry sick self alive. The vicious downward spiral circle of untreated diabetes becomes obvious in that scenario, doesn't it.
Judy D.
- 7.1.
-
Re: Close to OT? "Boundaries"
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:34 am (PST)
I'll give it a try, thanks
~diane
On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Jude <peridotjude@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> It's a Christian book, but don't let that keep you away from this
> wonderful, classic self-help book called "Boundaries (When to Say Yes, When
> to Say No, to Take Control of Your Life" by Henry McCloud and John Townsend.
> The book has been around for 15 years and it's *terrific*-- my god, you will
> see yourself in its pages, Diane, I guarantee. The book gives the reader
> real-world, practical ways to overcome this problem, to have the
> self-confidence to see that they have the right to take care of themselves,
> and it teaches how to relegate the unimportant things to a dark corner,
> prioritize, and never lose yourself while doing the things you have to every
> day. As I said, the two men are Christian counselors, but as I remember,
> there's no big thing about prayer or faith or stuff you might consider
> weird.
>
> Amazon has it from secondary booksellers for as little as 10 bucks. I'm not
> sure if it's available in paperback or not.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries- When-Take- Control-Your/ dp/B001AN8BAC/ ref=sr_1_ 3?ie=UTF8& s=books&qid= 1261791149& sr=1-3
>
> Judy D.
>
>
>
>
>
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*** All information discussed on this list is not to be taken as medical advice but the experience of each member based on discussions with their doctors. ***
*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
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