1 2 3

Saturday, January 9, 2010

[Type-2-Diabetes] Digest Number 3865

Messages In This Digest (16 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Am a new diabetic and depressed/hard time

Posted by: "cathyb" bagelmom9@yahoo.com   bagelmom9

Fri Jan 8, 2010 3:24 pm (PST)



Katherine, I know your feelings very well, I felt the same way, and sometimes still do. I found that mixing up my menus, planning them ahead of time...living with a diabetic cook book and watching the small babysteps in progress help me get through the down times. If you can NOT think of this as a sentence of horrible living, and find something good everyday...every minute sometimes to be glad you are doing for yourself...it helps. But mixing up that menu helps me the most. Glad you wrote.

--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine Walker" <KWALKER5@...> wrote:
>
> Loved reading the "you know you're diabetic when...."
>
> I really needed to read these and laugh. So keep em coming
>
> I have been so depressed lately. I was diagnosed in October with diabetes type 2. First few months I was so enthusiastic....changing to healthier foods, joined the gym, took up yoga, and reading all I could about diabetes. Am losing weight slowly...1 lb. a week. Have ten lbs to go. Yes, this should be encouraging.....but I am feeling tired and depressed.
>
> Yes, it is after the holidays, yes, I have had a bad cold for three weeks, yes, my doctor has increased my metformin to 2 x day.
>
> But I am sick and tired of eating veggies and fruit. I have cut out all white flour, white rice, white potatoes and sugary deserts and candy. I am feeling so weak/no energy, sad and irritated. I am just not enjoying this at all.
>
> I thought I would feel better. At first I did. Is what I am going through normal greiving for loss of non diabetic health?
>
> Wa, wa, wa.
>
> Katherine
>

1b.

Re: Am a new diabetic and depressed/hard time

Posted by: "Dorothy Wurth" dottie.wurth@yahoo.com   dottie.wurth

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:18 pm (PST)



Katherine Walker wrote:  "I thought I would feel better.  At first I did.  Is what I am going through normal greiving for loss of non diabetic health?"
 
Hi Katherine,
 
Yes, I think it is totally normal, and we all go through it whether we admit it out loud or not.  We each have to figure out how we are going to handle that sense of let down that settles in after diagnosis and our initial efforts to take control.  For me, I had to make compromises.  I allow myself small treats when it is important to me.  Every once in a while, I step back and take a long view of what I'm doing and the progress I've made.  For instance, you said you've been losing weight and only have 10 more pounds to lose.  Wow, you have made great progress!  Celebrate that!   You are right about the laughter also.  That is the best medicine.  We have a tendency to think that the only way to manage our diabetes is through restricting our carb intake, but our glucose levels are also effected by our emotions and reactions to stress.  Laugh when ever you can.
Dottie

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Katherine Walker <KWALKER5@nc.rr.com> wrote:

 

2a.

Re: calcium sources

Posted by: "sharon osborn" shaross8@gmail.com   osborn.sharon

Fri Jan 8, 2010 3:24 pm (PST)



> The cheapest, most convenient way to get extra calcium is chewing on Tums antacid tablets a couple times a day.
> Judy D.

Dang, I replied, then clicked the wrong thing and now I can't find it.
Oh yeah, another 'side effect' of D2, Alzheimers/dementia. I;ve bee
practising those already, being on Zoloft and xanax for years and
years.
No sugar, none. I knew about Tums long ago, but just the thought of
sugar, kak. I even bought a load of "just in case" sweetener, but
have yet to even think about it, let alone use it. Sugar was never a
must. Cheese, on the other hand, is a major food group imo, and with
the horrid triglycerides(985), what I do painfully without.
Walking, walking, walking is key, and with agoraphobia, the most
difficult, for me. When I was schlepping my friends horses/dogs, etc.
over the hols, even if I could hardly move from exhaustion, BG went
dramatically down. If you eat it, walk it off. Now if I could...just
get out the door and head down the road.
gards,
share o' walla walla, wa US

3a.

Re: Carbs, Carb Points, Carb Exchanges, Carb Whatevers

Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com   hollyshaltz

Fri Jan 8, 2010 3:31 pm (PST)



Ron writes:

<<I'm not sure why people continue to use carb
exchanges, carb points, and worst of all, carbs,
to describe 15 grams of carbohydrate. >>

Because, at least in the US, the ADA trains us
that way, of course :) I guess they think we're
too dumb to understand grams as opposed to
exchanges. Or maybe they realize how horrified
people would be if they were told to eat "240 g of
carb" instead of "16 carb exchanges".

I used to use exchanges, since I was trained that
way, but as I had to whittle down my carbs,
eventually it didn't make sense anymore - I mean,
I don't even eat two full carb exchanges a day now :)

But I do try to specify that I'm talking about
grams of carbohydrate whenever I mention numbers,
to be clear.

Holly in MI

3b.

Re: Carbs, Carb Points, Carb Exchanges, Carb Whatevers

Posted by: "sharon osborn" shaross8@gmail.com   osborn.sharon

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:17 pm (PST)



Or maybe they realize how horrified
> people would be if they were told to eat "240 g of
> carb" instead of "16 carb exchanges".
> Holly in MI

240 sounds *so* much less depressing!
slo in wa

4.1.

Re: Holly, role of exercise in A1c levels, etc.

Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com   signoradiana

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:01 pm (PST)



Amal,
I am actually encouraged that in your country too there is a lot of
diagnosing of diabetes, because I had felt that it was mostly an American
phenomenon, in the sense that perhaps it was something in our food supply
that was causing it.
Apparently not.
Portion control is of course the best way to go.
~diane

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Amal <amal_mba10@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Bahrain, diabetes is soaring just like the rest of the world (for some
> reason). The doctors in the public health centres are very alert on this
> issue and run sugar tests on most of their patients. If a patient comes in
> with something like "I feel dizzy all the time" or "I have a headache" or "I
> have a skin rash" and the list is endless, they immediately run a random
> test followed by a fasting test the next day. Hundreds of people get tested
> each day for any symptom that may be attributed to diabetes. This way many
> get diagnosed early on. Also, patients are advised always to do a sugar
> test at least every 2 years if family history exists.
>
>
5a.

Re: Sharps Containers

Posted by: "Michael" bigbear@acsalaska.net   bigbear_ak

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:06 pm (PST)



I never worry about recapping as I just clip the sharp end off
with my BD Safe Clip and toss the rest in the trash. Only once
did I prick myself with the inside portion but it is not as sharp
as the outer needle and is only designed to pierce the rubber
stopper of the Byetta or insulin pen you are using.

--Michael

On Fri Jan 08 14:08:04 CST 2010, Donna <sdbmshad@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> UHM Micheal, I don't know where you got that information but I
> have been stuck by the part that is in the cap. I was replacing
> the little purple/blue cap in the needle and it poked my finger
> hard enough to bleed.
6a.

Re: free medication info

Posted by: "Dorothy Wurth" dottie.wurth@yahoo.com   dottie.wurth

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:17 pm (PST)



Dr. Geffner,
Contact the pharmaceutical company for the medication prescribed and ask about their prescription assistance plan.  The sales rep should have forms available that need to be completed showing the patient's income and need for the medication.

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Dr geffner <drgeff@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Dr geffner <drgeff@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] free medication info
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 12:39 PM

 

Can I have any links for medication financial assistance info, I have a friend with psych problems that needs medication and can not afford it, thanks

7a.

Re: I used to get hypos (not anymore) with 80mg Gliclazide

Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com   hollyshaltz

Fri Jan 8, 2010 4:48 pm (PST)



Thanks for sharing so fully your food and BGs, Wee :)

It takes a little while to figure out how to use
the BG test strips most effectively, I think.
What works best for me is like this:

First I take the fasting BG for the meal in
question. I write that down on my form, along
with the food I'm eating (weighed and measured
portions). I also write down the time I *start*
eating, and if I'm going to test extensively
around that meal, I set a timer as I start eating,
for one hour.

When the timer goes off, I test again, and write
the results down. I've learned about *my* body
that, if I'm not eating fast carbs, there's
usually very little change at 1 hour from my
fasting BG. If I *am* eating fast carbs, then I
know I need to start testing by 30 minutes at the
latest, and will set the timer for that, instead.

After the one-hour test, I set the timer for
either 15 or 30 minutes, depending on how many
tests I want to make and whether my BG seems to be
fluctuating quickly.

Ultimately, I might test until my BGs get back
down to where they started. So, to summarize, I
test just before eating, then at 1 hour, 1.5
hours, 2 hours, 2.5 hours, etc (or 1.25 hours,
1.5, 1.75, 2 hours, etc), until I'm sure my BGs
are returning to near my fasting level.

This gives me a "snapshot" of how *that* meal on
*that* day affected my body. Repeating this over
time, with different combinations of carbs and
proteins and veggies, gives me a more complete
picture of how these things affect my BG.

For a specific example, here's tonight's meal.

Fasting a few minutes before 6 pm: 80 / 4.4.

Start eating at 6 pm: 2 ounces beef, 1/2 cup
cooked green beans, and 1/4 cup ricotta cheese
with artificial sweetener and a tablespoon of
yogurt mixed in. That counts as 3 servings
protein, and about 8 g of carbohydrate (yes, a
little lower than normal - DD didn't cook enough
beans :)

At 1 hour, at 1.5 hours, etc, I can test (probably
won't bother tonight, because I know the carbs are
relatively slow and low enough to not spike me)
and write down what the results were. OK, since I
happened to notice it was 1.5 hours later, I just
tested - and my BG was 100. Yep, retested as that
was higher than I really expected, and it was
still 99. Dang, a 20-point rise from 8 darn grams
of glucose <sighing> Anyway....

Repeated over several different days, over several
weeks, this gives me important info on what kinds
of carb I can handle, and what portions. Looking
at the change between my fasting BG and the
highest I see on the meter after the meal gives me
a good idea of the overall impact of those foods.
(In this particular instance, I suspect the
ricotta is the culprit, even though Dr Bernstein
recommends it.)

It's not real clear to me from your email whether
you feel your BGs are higher than normal (thank
you, BTW, for converting to the US system for us
:) since coming off the Gliclazide, or what.

Gliclazide is a sulfanylurea drug. It makes the
pancreas excrete more insulin than it would
otherwise. One result is your BGs will be lower
overall with a given amount of carb consumption
than without that, or similar, drugs. It also has
the side-effect, potentially, of lows as you
experienced before Christmas, if you don't eat
enough carbs to keep that insulin busy.

Conversely, if you come off the medication but
continue eating the same number of carbs you were
before, then your BGs are likely to be higher than
you're used to seeing. This isn't something to
panic about, but just to record and analyze as you
build a picture of your BGs after measured amounts
of protein and carb.

Over a little time and lots of BG tests, you'll
figure out how many grams of carbohydrate, and
what forms of carb, your body can tolerate and
still keep you (most of the time) at or near your
goals.

Some specific thoughts on the foods you list....

<<had southern fried chicken and chips for lunch,
can't help the craving :( naughty me>>

LOL! I haven't had more than one french fry in a
very long time (stolen from DH's or DD's portion
:), but I well remember the last time I went to a
local, favorite hamburger joint. I *knew* I was
playing with fire, but I had deep-fried fish and a
basket of onion rings with a special sauce that
*has* to be loaded with sugar. (I did drink plain
water, at least :) It was the last time I did
something like that - I think it was for DH's
birthday back in March - and the last time my BG
was over 200. Lesson learned!

Today my indulgences are much smaller and lower
carb. I've found a number of things I can eat and
enjoy that don't spike my BGs like that. (Not
ricotta, apparently!)

<<had some porridge oats with one egg only>>

Ah, I do love steel-cut oats, with brown sugar!
Can't have it any more, it spikes my BG something
awful, even without the sugar. For a while I ate
flaxseed meal "cereal" instead, before dropping it
because it was too carby for me. 1/4 cup or 1
ounce / 28 grams of it mixed with boiling water
and whatever flavorings I want to add (artificial
sweetener, cinnamon, etc, not fruit or sugar) is
low carb, really very tasty, and helps with
regularity besides :) It also provides a serving
of protein.

One egg isn't a lot of protein, even if you had
quite a bit of oatmeal. What amount of protein
did the diabetes nurse recommend you have in the
morning?

<<had chicken curry, 1 naan bread & 1 papadom +
portion of rice for lunch at 12:15>>

*Sounds* like a lot of carbs; I'd guess at least
45 grams if the servings were very small, but your
body might be able to handle it. Test your BG
before you start eating, then at 1 hour and every
15 or 30 minutes until the BGs come down to near
your fasting level, and see what impact it has on you.

<<OK, slightly peckish, so had a little snack of
peanuts and raisins.>>

The ADA would say that's a good choice for a
snack, though it won't work for *my* body, alas (I
do love peanuts and peanut butter, and as for
dried fruits of all descriptions... heaven!
Except for the impact on my BGs :) However,
that's not a lot of food to carry you from lunch
and through the night. Well, unless "little
snack" is a lot more than my imagination suggests!

It can be hard to eat when you're not hungry, for
sure. If you can regularize the times you eat
your meals at, though, that will help a lot. I
used to not eat breakfast until I got hungry,
before my diagnosis, maybe an hour or 90 minutes
after getting up. At first I didn't like having
to eat as soon as I got up, but by forcing myself
to be regular with my meals, I now get hungry at
the "right" time to eat the next one with pleasure.

<<09:34 snack on peanuts and raisins, not hungry yet
11:34 I am very hungry>>

Are you surprised? You've only had two "snacks"
on peanuts and raisins for close to 24 hours? :)

<<15:10 I ate pasta salad at lunchtime
18:00 just had stir fry noodles with lots of green
vegetables and beans sprouts.>>

Unless there's something in these meals you're not
telling us about, you've had very little protein
for very many hours. And they're pretty high in
carbohydrates, unless the pasta in the salad and
the stir fried noodles are just token amounts.
Even so, not much protein.

<<I am worried my Doctor may ask me to take 40mg
Gliclazide(instead of the
80mg previously).
He may suggest this to bring the BG to my target
100mgdl/L.
But I don't want to go down that route, if I can
help it.>>

My own opinion, exactly :) I chose to avoid the
lows by dropping my carbs to maintain lower BGs,
instead of eating more carbs, taking my
hypoglycemic drug (micronase), and having lows
every day.

But to achieve that goal of 100 / 5.6, you need to
be attentive to the number of carbs you're eating
and either drop them to a lower level, or balance
them with exercise, or both. When I got home from
that hamburger place and saw that 200 on the
meter, I immediately went for a nice, long walk :)
It's better, though, to not go that high to
start with.

Today I rarely need to treat highs with exercise,
but I do know that without regular, routine
exercise, my BGs will creep up, slowly but surely.
I know you say your job is active, but unless
you're digging ditches you may need to add some
sort regular exercise to your routine to help stay
off the Gliclazide.

<<Why my current BG is not going down any lower
than what it use to before
Gliclazide was stopped?
Remember?...I even get a few hypos whilst shopping
with DD before Xmas.>>

Summing up, the Gliclazide made your pancreas
excrete more insulin than it would have otherwise.
That extra insulin can move more glucose into
your cells than without it, dropping your BG,
which is the advantage of such medications. One
of the disadvantages is you have to eat extra
carbs for that insulin to work on. If you don't
do that, or you exercise a lot more than usual
(and yes, just shopping can be enough to cause a
low), then you can go low.

Without the Gliclazide, lows are still possible if
your carb intake, including glucose tablets, isn't
balanced with your exercise. But they become much
less common and much less severe. The
disadvantage is you have to eat fewer carbs to
maintain the BG level you had while taking the
drug. But you're giving your pancreas a break,
possibly preserving its ability to make insulin at
all for your future life. Lots of pros and cons
both ways.

<<Tomorrow, I will eat low GI foods and cut out as
much carbs as I can.>>

Unfortunately, the "low GI" thing is largely a
myth. The charts are based on a very small set of
mostly non-diabetic people eating the foods
listed. And every diabetic tolerates carbs
differently, besides. I had my suspicions when I
saw one of the lists had Peanut M&Ms as being
lower GI than something, I don't remember what,
which was clearly less sweet and carby :)

The ONLY thing that counts with the food you eat
is what your BG meter tells you before and after
eating.

One more thing - it's not clear from your list of
foods whether you're measuring and/or weighing
them. Portion size is very important. One or two
french fries might be fine, even for me. A half
cup might be too much for me, fine for you. A cup
or more is likely to be too much for just about
any diabetic, especially if eaten with other
carbs. Again, the BG meter will tell you what
portions are OK and what's too much, but you have
to measure those portions and write them down to
make sense of it all.

I'd also stay away, for a time, from mixed dishes
like pasta salad and stir fries (unless you cook
the carbs, veggies, and proteins separately, weigh
them separately, and then combine them on your
plate so you know exactly how much of each you are
eating). Once you get to know your response to
carbs better, you'll probably be able to eat mixed
foods again.

Our American equivalent might be casseroles - I
haven't had one since my diagnosis, because it's
too hard to know how much of each type of
ingredient I'm getting (it has nothing to do with
the fact I never really liked casseroles, honest!
:) There is a way around this - measure every
ingredient going into the dish, then divide the
results into a given number of portions, like 10.
Then you divide the protein total for the whole
dish by 10 and the carb total by 10, and that
tells you what you're getting when you have that
portion of the dish. I use this approach for my
chili, cauliflower soup, and a few other things.
Kind of a pain, but for my body it's necessary.

Long response to your posts! Keep up the good
work, and do report back as you find you have
something you want to discuss. Or if there's
something I've written that isn't clear, please
feel free to ask questions. I've written so much
here I expect it's probably information overload.

Holly in MI

7b.

20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com   hollyshaltz

Fri Jan 8, 2010 5:23 pm (PST)



So now is it clear why I keep talking about
insulin? I'm really close to deciding to TELL the
endo I want it.

My fasting before supper was 80.

At 1.5 hours I was 100.

At 2 hours, just now, 101.

My supper consisted of 2 ounces plain roast beef,
1/2 cup braised green beans (a little butter
added, a little salt, nothing else), and 1/4 cup,
carefully measured, of whole-milk ricotta cheese
with 1 TB of whole-milk yogurt, a packet of
stevia, and a tablespoon of sugar-free DaVinci
syrup. (And no, I'm not starving, I'm perfectly
full still, thanks :)

8 grams of carb, *maybe* 9 if I'm really
"generous" with how I count 'em, and I go up 20
points.

Yeah, I know, a bunch of you are rolling your eyes
- what right have I to complain at a 2-hour post
prandial of 100?

But on that few grams of carbohydrate, to have the
BGs go up that much and stay there is the PITS.

For the record, I've taken my metformin daily,
have maintained my weight at 141 pounds, and have
exercised at least 65 minutes every dang day so
far this month. 75 minutes today, to be specific.

I know, I can't expect any answers here, I'm just
venting I guess.

But I sure wish there were some answers
*somewhere*....

Holly in MI

7c.

Re: 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com   signoradiana

Fri Jan 8, 2010 5:56 pm (PST)



I'm sorry Holly. I don't understand why you believe that 101 is a bad post
meal number.
Am I alone in believing this is not bad?
I mean it just sounds so completely normal to me.
I'm really confused.....help me to really understand WHY you think 101 is
bad after two hrs.
I'm usually 110 after two hrs, sometimes 115, my doc thinks I'm doing fine.
In fact, with those numbers I would almost have to believe that insulin
would be making you go way too low for sure.

~diane

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com> wrote:

> So now is it clear why I keep talking aboutI'
> insulin? I'm really close to deciding to TELL the
> endo I want it.
>
> My fasting before supper was 80.
>
> At 1.5 hours I was 100.
>
> At 2 hours, just now, 101.
>
>
7d.

Re: 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com   hollyshaltz

Fri Jan 8, 2010 6:25 pm (PST)



Diane writes:

<<help me to really understand WHY you think 101
is bad after two hrs.>>

Dr Bernstein's guideline to his patients is that,
on 30 g of carb a day, including 12 at supper, the
diabetic will be able to stay within about 10
points of 83. He believes that is equivalent to
non-diabetic BG control, and I agree, after all
the research I've done on the topic.

I started at 80. I had 8, maybe 9 g of carb, and
I went up 20 points, to 101. I routinely eat 10%
fewer grams of carb than he suggests, I exercise
more than he suggests. IOW, I make the sacrifices
to stay within 10 points of 83 all the time, and
I'm not getting that result.

I realize no one else chooses to adhere to Dr
Bernstein's goals. I realize most people think
I'm nuts to sacrifice what I do. It's not easy.
But with 30 years of uncontrolled diabetes behind
me, it's my best hope for a longer, healthier life
than I ever dared dream of before reading his
book. And it's my best hope to at least slightly
reverse some of the complications I have and
haven't had any help with from my "medical team".
Like the joint pain that keeps me awake night
after night after night....

I'm walking the walk, but not getting the results
he says are possible. My body isn't cooperating
with my ambitions, I guess you could say. I
believe if I were under his care, he would put me
on insulin. Yet without exception, people I've
talked to about insulin laugh at me for thinking I
could go on it with my A1C so low.

It's very frustrating to make these sacrifices and
not get the results that are reasonable to expect
from these sacrifices.... But, Diane, thanks for
caring enough to respond like that! It helps.

Holly in MI

7e.

Re: 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Linda Morrison" sktrlady@tx.rr.com   sktrlady

Fri Jan 8, 2010 8:18 pm (PST)



I have a hard time understanding why you want to go so low. In my diabetes
education class (and I am on insulin).

Fasting 70-110

Before meals 70-110

2 hours after meals less than 140

Bedtime 100-140

If we fell in these guidelines we were fine.

From: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Holly Shaltz
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:25 PM
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

So now is it clear why I keep talking about
insulin? I'm really close to deciding to TELL the
endo I want it.

My fasting before supper was 80.

At 1.5 hours I was 100.

At 2 hours, just now, 101.

My supper consisted of 2 ounces plain roast beef,
1/2 cup braised green beans (a little butter
added, a little salt, nothing else), and 1/4 cup,
carefully measured, of whole-milk ricotta cheese
with 1 TB of whole-milk yogurt, a packet of
stevia, and a tablespoon of sugar-free DaVinci
syrup. (And no, I'm not starving, I'm perfectly
full still, thanks :)

8 grams of carb, *maybe* 9 if I'm really
"generous" with how I count 'em, and I go up 20
points.

Yeah, I know, a bunch of you are rolling your eyes
- what right have I to complain at a 2-hour post
prandial of 100?

But on that few grams of carbohydrate, to have the
BGs go up that much and stay there is the PITS.

For the record, I've taken my metformin daily,
have maintained my weight at 141 pounds, and have
exercised at least 65 minutes every dang day so
far this month. 75 minutes today, to be specific.

I know, I can't expect any answers here, I'm just
venting I guess.

But I sure wish there were some answers
*somewhere*....

Holly in MI

7f.

Re: 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com   peridotjude

Fri Jan 8, 2010 10:21 pm (PST)



Hi Holly,

I confess that I may have forgotten more of my nutrition 101 than I ever learned, but if I remember right-- it's ALL converted to glucose eventually. The simple carbs you swallow have the fastest impact on your bloodstream, of course, especially the liquid carbs. But protein and fat are also converted and impact the glucose eventually, certainly within 2 hours. It's all food, and the body can only use it in a glucose form, which is ITS food.

I'm not sure why you think a 20 point PP "high" is that high or dangerous. I mean, even non-diabetics go up 20 points after they eat-- are they usually back to where they started in just two hours? (I'm asking srsly, not picking a fight, 'cause I don't know.)

The endo will never give you insulin for this. *shakes head* And OMG, you don't want it either. I suppose you could be a candidate for an insulin pump, where you can use a continuous glucose monitor and micro-manage your insulin dose to your heart's content, but do you have insurance coverage for such a thing?

The new doc I saw the other day reminded me again that the best glucose control is one that allows for only modest PP rise, flowing back to a good pre-prandial number, and she made a gentle up and down wave motion with her hand while she said that. IOW, I do think a PP rise like yours isn't so abnormal-- in my lay opinion only, a 20 point rise in no way constitutes a spike, especially when that 20 points gets you to the grand total of 100!

???? I hear your frustration, hon, I really do. *hugs* We're here to listen.

Judy D.

7g.

Re: 20-point BG rise from 8 g of carb <sigh>

Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com   peridotjude

Fri Jan 8, 2010 10:30 pm (PST)



--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com, Holly Shaltz <holly@...> wrote: <snip> I make the sacrifices to stay within 10 points of 83 all the time, and I'm not getting that result>>

In your heart of hearts, do you think further weight loss would help? If you lost maybe a half pound a week for maybe two months, do you feel down deep in your bones that might make a diff?

Is your BMI 25 or less?

I honest to god can't think of anything else you can do.

If you were anyone else, I'd be climbing up on my FCOL-83-and-101-are-in-the-same-glucose-ballpark soapbox. How many times have we told the newbies that when they test 3 times in the same half hour and see 120, 132, and 143, those numbers are all within acceptable margins of error on their meters (which we know can be between 10-20%) and to stop testing so much and obsessing. Ahem. Sorry. I'm just sayin'. And I know you're feeling criticized right now, but stop that this minute! I'm just thinking out loud, for the list's benefit, not just yours, okay? K.

Judy D.

8a.

Re: I used to get hypos (not anymore) with 80mg Gliclazide - Judy D

Posted by: "Linda Morrison" sktrlady@tx.rr.com   sktrlady

Fri Jan 8, 2010 5:40 pm (PST)



To me, it seems like you are eating a lot of carbs. Do u not like
vegetables? Munch on celery or have a big salad but watch the dressing-
little carbs.

Oatmeal is good. Egg is good. What else is in the Chicken Curry? Spices
and chicken have very little carbs.

Mixed nuts are good to snack on because they have a lot of protein but
raisins adds carbs. Watch those raisins.

Cheese has a lot of fat but no carbs. I sometimes will buy deli meats and
snack on that - again no carbs.

Do you like pork rinds? No carbs.

Rice is low GI but still is a carb and should be limited.

Any kind of carb needs to be limited to whatever your doctor has decided.

I am allowed 45 grams of carbs for 3 meals and 3 snacks of 15 grams of
carbs.

From: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wee K Chew
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:01 PM
To: Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Type-2-Diabetes] I used to get hypos (not anymore) with 80mg
Gliclazide - Judy D :)

"What an interesting post, Wee. You keep good records! <G> Just FYI, when
you convert your Brit glucose numbers to American, drop the tenths point. We
don't say 110.2, we round down, so it's just 110. Or you can round up, so
that 110.6 becomes 111."
OK, will do :)

"What in heck are you eating? Or not eating? You don't eat! The first day, I
see fried chicken and french fries (the idea makes me drool, but this is
really junk food, sorry)and that's all you had all day?"
I agree! but needed something quick, was late for work and people keep
bugging, to attend meets & was so hungry then :(

"And the next day, you had oatmeal and an egg,"
That was breakfast & what's wrong with oatmeal for breakfast?
Oatmeal has a low Glycaemic Index(GI) & poached eggs has protein <g>

"chicken curry,"
Chicken Curry is sort of "spicy chicken stew".
OK, I agree it is a little bit oily but it taste lovely, can't resist this
time :)

"naan bread"
This is just leaven flat bread.

"papadoms,"
This is a spicy, flat, crispy, cracker deep-fried in vegetable oil but once
in a blue moon I delved :)
It is just one piece I had and I likely not to have it for a long time, lol
:)))

"neither of which I know what they are (sorry again) and rice, and later a
dinner of peanuts and raisins? Okaaaaay....
I can't eat a chicken curry on its own and I opted for Basmati Rice(which is
low GI).
OK, I agree, it was fried in oil but can't do much harm to "celebrate coming
off Gliclazide" :)))
Gosh! I am running out of excuses here.
Too funny, lol :)))

"And the next day, peanuts and raisins again mid-morning, after no
breakfast,"
Ah! Didn't feel hungry but "Snacked on peanut/raisins", with intention to
kill the increasing BG caused by Dawn Phenomenon/Symogi Effect.
I didn't eat a lot as I was not hungry(i.e. I was just simply "picking")
I have no idea why I was not hungry that morning but I truly had no
appetite.
I often eat a lot when I am really, really hungry, otherwise I simply
"pick".

"a lunch of pasta salad (did you put any protein in there?)"
Yes, there was eggs and king prawns with a good sprinkling of virgin olive
oil.

"and more noodles and green stuff for supper."
This is healthy pescatarian stuff, it has a variety of leafy vegetables,
beans sprouts and tuna.

"With your irregular eating habits, I don't know how you're ever going to
make sense of what's really happening with your glucose.
Whenever you go more than 5-6 hours without eating something "real", your
liver is just going to kick in and supply some glucose anyway, and up will
go your glucose levels. I dunno, but it sounds way confusing to me, what
you're doing."
I mislead you as I missed out the daily fruits which consists of a fruit(
changes daily and can be a small apple, pear or orange).
I never go without my 5-a-day mixed fruit and veg'.

"One thing you can't do is try something different, some different way of
eating, every day or two."
Great Idea and I will seriously experiment using my body and the BG meter
and post the results here for all to see.

"It'd probably take a week or two to see if a particular way of eating is
doing what you want, and you'd need to test around different foods as you
go, because some people can eat pasta and some can't, etc.
Plus portion sizes are important.
Most of us can eat two bites of mashed potatoes or three french fries, but
not a whole serving of either."
I completely agree and it will take time for me to organise myself to do
this experiment here.

"I don't have any advice for you, I guess, if you're going to skip meals and
make what you do eat so carby. ???? This just looks chaotic to me, but
hopefully it doesn't so much to you."
I need to sort myself out and then I can be eating properly again.

"Keep letting us know how you're doing, okay?"
I will, I promise :)

Wee :)
Middx UK

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*** All information discussed on this list is not to be taken as medical advice but the experience of each member based on discussions with their doctors. ***

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