Messages In This Digest (13 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Tiamat
- 1b.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Diane Moro
- 1c.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Holly Shaltz
- 1d.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Holly Shaltz
- 1e.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Holly Shaltz
- 1f.
- Re: seeing an endo From: Jude
- 2a.
- Re: rant about BG swings From: Tiamat
- 2b.
- to thine own self be true From: Jude
- 2c.
- Re: rant about BG swings From: Holly Shaltz
- 2d.
- Re: rant about BG swings From: Holly Shaltz
- 2e.
- Re: rant about BG swings From: Tiamat
- 3a.
- Re: On diabetic plants in India. From: Diane Moro
- 4a.
- Re: glucose reading ups and down Q. Insulin? From: Diane Moro
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Tiamat" tiamat99@comcast.net lulamoon99
Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:12 pm (PST)
1. Vit D: Is rx from pharmacy, emerald green capsule, 50,000u each. Took one every other day all Nov and now on one/2x/mo. I know many factors are involved in my feeling better, but I am not just feeling better from the recent illness, I am feeling better than I have felt for a very long time before the recent illness and hosp.
The lab result for my Vit D was 14, should be over 114.
Many aches and pains have eased and I have more energy and certainly feel mo' better. If I want to think it's the Vit D, why not. If I think I'll feel better every time I take a capsule, why not: mb it's suggestion, self-hypnosis, placebo...whatever works. I'll leave the xact science to the researchers; for me, I'm just grateful to be managing well in my own house and thinking clearly.
I notice many more people are saying their docs have rxed Vit D...good! Couldn't hurt.
2. [Your allergy doc.] I had cataract surg done year ago June and it was so successful that I just couldn't get over it. When went to surg who did it for follow-up, I began to tell him what a miracle it was, how grateful I was, etc etc...he mumbled something about a 'captive audience' and ran out of the room.
I never really spoke to him again, altho he did the other eye 6 mos later, and there were the usual prep visits before that. He wanted me to bring my eyes for him to do his specialty and shut tf up. Everything was fine once I understood that. I just nodded and mb said OK or did a thumbs up sign. We got along great! I think he would have been even happier if I could have Fed Xed the eyes and kept the rest of me at home.
I told this, and that I was sure that Catar Doc wouldn't know me if he fell over me, to my other eye doc who inquired about it and he nodded and said: 'sometimes you just want a good technician.' Too right.
So I say, when you go to a doc, ask yourself what you want from him/her.
When I spoke of the bgs etc. I was speaking from the possible viewpoint of the endo, who doesn't know 'you' personally, doesn't have all your info, and has to have some general parameters to work within. They are also working in a constantly shifting field where new info arrives every five minutes. It would make me nuts.
Also: "Hi doc! I just saw on You Tube this morning that they have a new treatment for diabetes: they mix rattlesnake venom with this powdered bark from a tree in the rain forest and add Kahlua...can you give me a rx to try it?? I'm sure it's just the thing for me."
I don't understand arguing or being angry with the docs since you own your own life and can do what you want to anyway. You don't have to convince him/her that you are right or be contentious or defensive. Thank for his/her opinion, mb share your opinion, and go your own way, anywhich way you want.
Tiamat
----- "Jude" <peridotjude@yahoo.com > wrote:
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Tiamatcom
> <<She also rx Vit D which a test showed as very very low. [IMO it has made a huge difference] >>
>
> How much do you take? And is it a prescription Vit. D formula of some kind, or an OTC supplement?
>
> My allergy doctor wants silence from me. I chafe under that, but it's the way he works. If I ask questions or make observations or try to insert a little humor into our deadly serious (on his part) twice yearly visits, HE chafes under THAT and gets... well, he's not sarcastic, and he's not rude, and he's not impolite, and he's not angry per se, but... I just don't like him. I stay under his care because honest to god, this is the *first* time in my 60 years that my asthma has been under control-- I can't wheeze, even when I try! The man knows his stuff, even though he's a major pain in the a**. I don't know how his office staff works with him-- he's yelled at them in front of me, many times, and I want to spit at him when he does that. *rolls eyes*
__ - 1b.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:38 pm (PST)
See, I keep thinking that maybe this is what my doc has in mind when she
tells me that 5.8 a1c is "good". I'm not on meds and eating low carb and she
says that's good for me. When I asked her if I should see and endo she said
I could if I really wanted to but she did not think it necessary. I don't
have the sort of numbers that warrant that yet and my other labs are all
within normal limits.
I suppose I could go lower if I gave up even more carbs and smaller
portions, don't know but how realistic will it be for me in the long run?
Thats what I always think of, the long run, since I've btdt more times than
I want to remember.
~diane
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Tiamat <tiamat99@comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>
> You write about a goal of 'normalizing bgs'. IMO this may be a bit too
> tight...you don't know what 'normal bgs' are for everyone at every time of
> day and every condition, so this is not a fact-based realistic goal. IMO
> it would be better to shoot for 'good enough'....'close enough'. Your endo
> may have that as a more realistic goal and so don't go in prejudiced ahead
> of time. It's not that they are stupid or ignorant..it's more a question of
> balancing out the dangers [severe] of too low and too tight control against
> the safer 'good enough'...low enough to avoid complications but not
> constantly in danger of death.
>
>
- 1c.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:41 pm (PST)
I finally got the endo's paperwork, and have
filled it out. A pretty standard medical history,
and two separate sheets on which to list what I
typically eat. Nothing asking for my current A1C,
but I suppose they'll probably do a new one with
their own lab. Nothing asking for my
BG/A1C/diabetes management goals. I suppose
they're not used to diabetics having their own
goals :)
The appointment with the DNE of the endo's office
is less than 2 weeks away. I'll be sure to report
back on what that involves. The letter did
specify to bring meter and "logbook". I hope they
don't freak at my 3-ring binder complete with the
current month's daily food/exercise/bg logs and
monthly summary pages from my diagnosis, plus
reference material and all my lab results so far :)
BTW, thank you Judy for listing what a typical
appt at your endo's office entails. I won't be
seeing both the nurse and the doctor on the same
day, but other than that you've given me some
frame of reference of what might happen.
Holly in MI
- 1d.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:02 pm (PST)
Debbie writes:
<<But health care in my county seems to be even
worse than elsewhere, so I'll hold good thoughts
for you. >>
Thanks for the reminder, Debbie, that, with all
its imperfections, I do still have access to
medical care of some sort.
My endo is only 30 miles away - the next closest
is 70. If I don't "click" with this one, I doubt
I'll try one of those further away. While I would
*like* to have someone more knowledgeable working
with me on my diabetes management, as Tiamet
points out, I don't really *need* it, at least not
at this point. My original hope was to have
someone who knew me to help me solve challenges as
they come up. But with probably only one visits,
I guess that's not likely.
I hope you will report back on your visits, as I
will with mine :)
Holly in MI
- 1e.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:07 pm (PST)
Diane writes:
<<See, I keep thinking that maybe this is what my
doc has in mind when she
tells me that 5.8 a1c is "good". I'm not on meds
and eating low carb and she
says that's good for me.>>
Diane, if *you* are happy with where you are, then
keep doing what you're doing! You're not in
competition with me, or anyone else :) Just keep
your eye on your personal BG and A1C goals, and (I
hope) share your challenges and successes getting
there, so we can support you and celebrate with you!
Wishing you, and all our other list members, the
Healthiest New Year in 2010!
Holly in MI
- 1f.
-
Re: seeing an endo
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:39 pm (PST)
--- In Type-2-Diabetes@yahoogroups. , Diane Moro <deemoro@...com > wrote: See, I keep thinking that maybe this is what my doc has in mind when she tells me that 5.8 a1c is "good". I'm not on meds and eating low carb and she says that's good for me>>
A 5.8 A1c reflects an average of about 125, so although it's not in the non-diabetic range, it certainly shows very good control, overall.
Remember that statistically, we know that most US type 2s have an A1c over 8.0 (a 205 average). Knowing that, and knowing that family practice docs are told that anything under a 7.0 is acceptable, and endo docs are told (by their own organization) that anything under 6.5 is acceptable, when your doc sees 5.8, she undoubtedly breathes a sigh of relief.
<<When I asked her if I should see and endo she said I could if I really wanted to but she did not think it necessary>>
FWIW, one cent marked down from two, I agree. What is an endo going to do for you? He'll see your 5.8 and agree that "gee, you're doing just fine, so go home, keep on doing what you're doing, and I'll see you again in 4-6 months for another panel of blood work and a check up. Till then, go have a good life."
Which would not be bad advice, IMO... I don't know about you guys, but I'm paying about as much attention to my $*#@*?~ diabetes as I'm willing to at the present time.
Judy D.
- 2a.
-
Re: rant about BG swings
Posted by: "Tiamat" tiamat99@comcast.net lulamoon99
Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:09 pm (PST)
I understand your frustration...what I don't get is why even bother with others' opinions and upset yourself?
Clearly you have found a wonderful woe that works for you, keeps you well and happy. What does it matter what others say?
Many yrs ago I was just about totally incapacitated, couldn't drive, couldn't work, chronic digestive probs, had many med tests and nothing could be found. Long story....then one day my dh said' ya know..that sounds like food allergies." Went to his pal ENT doc who was specializing in new diagnosis of food sensitivities and sure enough, had several severe shows. I had to eliminate so many foods that little was left and so I made my own woe: a beefalo burger for bkfst and a beefalo burger for lunch and a supper of meat, vegetable or salad...and that's it.
I lost fifty pounds [of overweight], lost every ache and pain, gained energy, clarity, well-being.. returned to work, to living, to enjoying.
Everyone I knew thot I was nuts: I carried Beefalo burgers with me everywhere, wouldn't eat anything else, only drank green tea [just about unknown then, had to go to Oriental markets to find]. People made fun of me, told me it was totally dangerous etc. Doctors especially were outraged at the thought of food allergies: thy insisted that there were only a few food allergies: seafood, eggs, wheat and only these quacks and con-men talked about food allergies...But people were getting sick and so gradually it became a compromise: you could call it food sensitivities but not allergies... even then it was barely tolerated as more than a fad ['usually involving neurotic women' they said] .. [since most of our social life involved other docs it was a pretty constant PITA].
But I got well, I got happy, I got energetic, cheerful, ..name any good thing.
I returned to my profession, I made my own clothes, made jewelry, made dinner parties, made every day a party.
I can picture people bringing it up every once in awhile: "Whatever happened to that crazy woman who carried burgers in her purse, poor dear...she musta died from it. "
So what does it matter what anyone thinks [beyond a
short reasonable consideration to evaluate the opinion.]
Why even bother being annoyed? Why waste the energy?
Go your own way, have your good results, have your happy life...no one has to agree, or accept what you do.
Have a few set phrases to save energy: Well, this works for me. This keeps me well. Thnx for your opinion. Doctor's orders ;-D etc.
Tiamat
----- "Holly Shaltz" <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
> Here's my rant. It helped me to let off some
> steam. Maybe it will also explain where I'm
> coming from better than all the well-reasoned
> arguments in the world....
>
> <rant on>
> - 2b.
-
to thine own self be true
Posted by: "Jude" peridotjude@yahoo.com peridotjude
Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:30 pm (PST)
Tiamat, you have the best attitude, laced with a wonderful sense of humor, of anyone I've "met" in maybe about forever. I wanna be you when I grow up. <G>
This made me smile <<<I can picture people bringing it up every once in awhile: "Whatever happened to that crazy woman who carried burgers in her purse, poor dear...she musta died from it.">>>
I 100% agree that no one has to agree with or approve of anything we decide to do in our own lives, as long as we're not hurting anyone else. Especially when we get to a certain age, and have found out the hard way that no one's going to like anything we do anyway-- it's a true case of damned-if-you-do-and-damned- if-you-don' t.
If you do nothing, people whisper about you, "She has such a pretty face, why doesn't she DO something about the weight? Did you just see her eat that cookie?" and if you finally get on a program, a diet, embrace an effective self-care philosophy, whatever you want to call it, and you drop some weight and start participating in your own life again, they cluck their tongues and say, "Does she want to KILL herself? Doesn't she know she needs to eat three squares a day, drink red wine with dinner, smoke a little weed for medicinal purposes, pray for world peace, and go back to school to learn massage therapy? Gee, she was never THAT fat...."
Eeeeeek! *holds onto head and runs for the hills*
To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.
Judy D.
- 2c.
-
Re: rant about BG swings
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:35 pm (PST)
Tiamet writes:
<<I understand your frustration...what I don't get
is why even bother with others' opinions and upset
yourself? >>
What upsets me is being judged - extreme or
whatever - over and over again. I know the path I
need to take, but sometimes, being human, I
stumble and need support. I might need
informational support to solve a problem, or
emotional support to keep me steady. I go looking
for that support. When, instead of support, I get
judgment, it's upsetting to me. Sorry, but I'm
human :)
Didn't you go looking for support when you had the
problems that resulted in eating beefalo every
day? Didn't you sometimes need more info while
pursuing that WOE to treat your problems? Maybe
you found all the support you needed; maybe you
didn't need *any* support once you started. If
so, you're a stronger person than I'll ever be :)
When I have had problems with my diabetes
management, I talk to my PA, I read books, I
research on the net, and if none of this helps, I
post on lists and/or forums, explaining my
challenge, and asking for input. This seems like
a smart thing to do, wouldn't you agree?
When I'm then told I don't have a problem, I'm
making it up, I'm extreme, I'm exaggerating, etc,
all of that attempts to invalidate what I'm going
through, how I feel, and that isn't pleasant to me.
If I'm not dealing with any problems, or what
challenges I have are currently workable, like my
current challenge of figuring out how much glucose
to use to cover my exercise, then I don't need to
ask for support. But I still don't like being
labeled extreme, etc. I still don't like being
marginalized, put down, belittled, on a list, on a
forum, in person.
I will continue to go my own way, as you say,
regardless of what others say or think. But it's
hard to post about problems I encounter and ask
for help or feedback or whatever when the result
is to be put down for my WOE.
I also wonder what the lurkers and newbies think
of that. Will they be willing to share their
concerns, questions, problems, when someone else
is labeled negatively for doing what's right for her?
Kudos to you, Tiamet, for being so strong! I'm
not that invincible, myself :)
Holly in MI
- 2d.
-
Re: rant about BG swings
Posted by: "Holly Shaltz" holly@shaltzfarm.com hollyshaltz
Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:50 pm (PST)
My thanks to all who responded in a kind way to my
rant - which, so far, is everyone who responded! :)
I know my limitations. I know I'm more sensitive
to others' opinions than I "should" be. I even
understand why that is :) I've actually gotten
better over the years, believe it or not - I've
worked hard to shake off the negative messages I
grew up with, but it's unrealistic for me to
suppose that I will ever wholly succeed with that.
I will keep on doing what I know is right for me,
but it's *much* easier to do when I have at least
one other person occasionally giving me
meaningful, positive feedback. Just hearing it
from myself gets old. Hearing negative stuff gets
older faster!
I *greatly* admire those of you who don't need any
pats on the back! I hope you get them sometimes
anyway.
Holly in MI
- 2e.
-
Re: rant about BG swings
Posted by: "Tiamat" tiamat99@comcast.net lulamoon99
Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pm (PST)
Several things work for me:
1. The idea: "If they knew better they would do better."
People operate to the limits of their knowledge and experience. It isn't personal: it's the best they/we can do.
That's where they/we are and that's that. IMO we are very clever chimpanzees and have a loooong way to go.
2. One needs to very specific about what is wanted. One can't just want 'support'. I would very much like to support you but I have no idea what you would consider support, what kind of support you need. So..without *very* specific requests, people [incl me] respond with what they think might, may, could be supportive.
If it's info you want, then search for that specifically. You may be too far ahead of the current. You may be a path leader. You are unlikely to find a great many 'others' to walk with you. Remember we are not 10 seconds ahead of "Don't eat sugar. Watch your feet."...as new diabetics were told.
3. It's one of those hall of mirrors thingies: you are judging them for what you think of as judging you and then you are annoyed with them for judging. People have a right to their opinions just as you feel entitled to yours.
4. No I didn't get any 'support' as such in my beefalo days. Quite the opposite. Even dh was very skeptical at first and worried, and definitely non-supportive. [my thought was yeah, but you're not dying, I am, so unless you have a better idea.....]
But I did get the reinforcing feedback from the results of feeling well, working again, losing weight etc. was enough! I also did a lot of meditation and found great comfort in that.
5. Buddhist saying: whatever you want to manifest in the world--> be that. If you want more tolerance, be more tolerant: of all the different levels of wisdom [or not] that people are at. If you want support be supportive of how you ask for it so the other person can offer the best they know how. If it isn't what you want thank them for their energy and good intentions and move on. If you don't want judgment, don't judge.
If you are posting your woe then just share and [by now] understand the range of responses you are likely to get. Pls give up being surprised and disappointed. Ask yourself what you are expecting. People on web lists range from mature caring people to nasty little kids getting off on being malicious anonymously. Ya never know.
6. Most people don't have your discipline, your focus, your willingness to be responsible for every bite and every choice. So what you are sharing, your woe, seems very daunting to most people and annoys them bc they know they aren't going to do that.
7. I have never thought of myself as a strong person and don't now. I do work at being accepting, tolerant. I keep a goal of Wisdom, Compassion, Patience. in mind and measure myself by that.
8. Invincible?? Ya mean like nobody can see ya? ;-}
Nah.
I can be undone by a medium sized spider. We have too many wars [fueled by testosterone, poor dears]...war on people, on terrorism, on poverty, on drugs, etc etc. I go a more yin way: of yielding to reality. Rocks are strong, rocks are invincible, but they can be worn away by water.
I'm the water.
Tiamat
----- "Holly Shaltz" <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
Tiamet writes:
>
> <<I understand your frustration...what I don't get
> is why even bother with others' opinions and upset
> yourself? >>
>
> What upsets me is being judged - extreme or
> whatever - over and over again. I know the path I
> need to take, but sometimes, being human, I
> stumble and need support. I might need
> informational support to solve a problem, or
> emotional support to keep me steady. I go looking
> for that support. When, instead of support, I get
> judgment, it's upsetting to me. Sorry, but I'm
> human :)
>
> Didn't you go looking for support when you had the
> problems that resulted in eating beefalo every
> day? Didn't you sometimes need more info while
> pursuing that WOE to treat your problems? Maybe
> you found all the support you needed; maybe you
> didn't need *any* support once you started. If
> so, you're a stronger person than I'll ever be :)
>
> When I have had problems with my diabetes
> management, I talk to my PA, I read books, I
> research on the net, and if none of this helps, I
> post on lists and/or forums, explaining my
> challenge, and asking for input. This seems like
> a smart thing to do, wouldn't you agree?
>
> When I'm then told I don't have a problem, I'm
> making it up, I'm extreme, I'm exaggerating, etc,
> all of that attempts to invalidate what I'm going
> through, how I feel, and that isn't pleasant to me.
>
> If I'm not dealing with any problems, or what
> challenges I have are currently workable, like my
> current challenge of figuring out how much glucose
> to use to cover my exercise, then I don't need to
> ask for support. But I still don't like being
> labeled extreme, etc. I still don't like being
> marginalized, put down, belittled, on a list, on a
> forum, in person.
>
> I will continue to go my own way, as you say,
> regardless of what others say or think. But it's
> hard to post about problems I encounter and ask
> for help or feedback or whatever when the result
> is to be put down for my WOE.
>
> I also wonder what the lurkers and newbies think
> of that. Will they be willing to share their
> concerns, questions, problems, when someone else
> is labeled negatively for doing what's right for her?
>
> Kudos to you, Tiamet, for being so strong! I'm
> not that invincible, myself :)
>
> Holly in MI
>
>
- 3a.
-
Re: On diabetic plants in India.
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:50 pm (PST)
I did hear and read about this, always wanted to try it but how does one
take it? Do you take it every day, or just when you are eating carbs?
thanks
I will do some internet checking but it's always better to get a good
source, rather than the internet pharmacies that are just pushing it.
~diane
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Sasirababu Krottapalli <
sasirababuk@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hai Hayes, " Happy New Year "
>
> Though I mean to write to you earlier, I could not do so for several
> reasons. I and my wife went for an annual medical check up and stayed there
> for a month with my son's family.We have just returned and trying to find
> out about gymnema sylvestre .Until you wrote about this herbal plant used in
> diabetic treatment I have no idea about it.. Since my return I contacted
> people who have knowledge on Indian medicinal plants.
>
> This g.s is a common woody climber growing wild in our near by shrub
> jungles. The leaves are dried and powered and packed for sale. Capsules are
> also packed with this powder.. My enquiry at the local Ayurvedic college ,
> dispenseries and medical shops tells me that it is a popular herbal medicine
> used esp. in rural areas for diabetes Many diabetics depend only on this gs
> for sugar control. There are no side effects and this powder can safely be
> used along with other
> medicines.
> Sasira babu K
>
>
>
>
- 4a.
-
Re: glucose reading ups and down Q. Insulin?
Posted by: "Diane Moro" deemoro@gmail.com signoradiana
Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:54 pm (PST)
Dr Ron, can I have an opinion from you please on this?
Is my doctor incorrect? I certainly don't want to be seeing a doctor that
is not well informed, but from everything I know of her, she seems quite
competent.
~diane
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Holly Shaltz <holly@shaltzfarm.com > wrote:
> Diane writes:
>
> <<Holly, I'm pretty sure that a rise of 20 30
> points or so is perfectly
> normal, I mean even non diabetics get a rise in
> the glucose after eating, as
> long as we go back down under 120 after two hrs.
> My doc says that's good.>>
>
> Well, I'll have to disagree with your doctor :)
>
> From Dr Bernstein's book, _Diabetes Solution_,
> pages 43-44 (in brackets I've added the non-US BG
> numbers for those who use that system):
>
>
Need to Reply?
Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest.
*** All information discussed on this list is not to be taken as medical advice but the experience of each member based on discussions with their doctors. ***
*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
*** Please always consult with your doctor about what treatment options are best for your situation. ***
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
No comments:
Post a Comment